I am LIVID!

Adam Lachlan · 21 Jun 2002, 06:26 AM

Look what I've just got from M$N:

Quote:

MSN® Hotmail® Policy Change

Change in Sent Messages Folder
Please note that starting in July, e-mail messages retained in your Sent Messages folder will be deleted after 30 days. If you have e-mails in your Sent Messages folder that you want to keep, you must transfer them to your Inbox or another folder prior to the 30-day expiration.

Just who are these people who think they can do this to us??? Just whenI thought hotmail couldn't get any lamer. Please spread this message around, with the encouragement to boycott this so-called reliable email service.

Adam Lachlan · 21 Jun 2002, 06:35 AM

Agree with me? See also this thread and this thread.

robert@fm · 21 Jun 2002, 06:37 AM

Well, I voted for the "extra account" poll option; but I use them strictly as a tertiary account, i.e. nothing important...

robert@fm · 21 Jun 2002, 06:39 AM

P.S.  I'm surprised you didn't give links to www.hotmailsucks.com and www.hotmailsucks.net...

Gazania · 21 Jun 2002, 06:42 AM

are doing this now. I think even Fastmail has a variation of it for their free accounts ... though they allow more time than 30 days.

Moving the stuff and renaming it seems to work ... for now. In the next year or so ... who knows!?

**psalzer** · 21 Jun 2002, 06:51 AM

Well, they own the service, so they can do what they want. The truth is, no one really wants a lot of non-paying customers any longer. The big services are not going to make it comfortable for holders of free accounts because on the whole, they'd prefer they were gone and it's the big services that have millions of free accounts that they're now servicing. My feeling is that if you can afford it, pay and you get to be a customer. If you really can't you'd do better with one of the solid but smaller services. Actually, I think that's true if you can pay, too, because one little customer means more to them, if they're running their service well.

mail2me · 21 Jun 2002, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by psalzer
Well, they own the service, so they can do what they want. The truth is, no one really wants a lot of non-paying customers any longer. The big services are not going to make it comfortable for holders of free accounts because on the whole, they'd prefer they were gone and it's the big services that have millions of free accounts that they're now servicing. My feeling is that if you can afford it, pay and you get to be a customer. If you really can't you'd do better with one of the solid but smaller services. Actually, I think that's true if you can pay, too, because one little customer means more to them, if they're running their service well.

I totally agree. Actually even hotmail is discouraging free accounts since their server is so overlaoded now that it can't support anymore. Recently I experienced some messages being bounced for no reason and a message stating "'server is too busy" when I tried to access their web page.

I wouldn't be surprised if they discontinue the signup of free accounts altogether. This would result in a chain reaction with the other services doing the same since they won't be able to accomodate so many free users and if free email is no longer available then then they can make more business too. I think this an eventually as soon as the load for hotmail becomes unbearable even to them to provide for free.

If you can pay then a paid account is definitely better.

Kyle Babich · 21 Jun 2002, 10:46 AM

I'm suprised that they would do this. I mean, considering they are trying to fill up everyone's mailboxes so that people have to pay for extra storage. Deleting sent messages after 30 days will decrease the space used and enable a more minimal amount of disk space to be used. Don't get me wrong, I don't like this either. I would much rather have permanent records of sent messages instead.

EDIT: Also, I believe the trust and reliability of Hotmail are two seperate topics altogether. Hotmail is definetly one of the most reliable services around, as far as free e-mail. With the financial backing of a multi-billion dollar company as apposed to really small free e-mail companies just barely getting by with an extreme amount of banners on each page, Hotmail will definetly survive longer than most. However, I wouldn't trust them with anything. Their security is a bit more than lacking along with their customer support. With all of the bugs, spam, and viruses flowing through Hotmail all of the time they are one of the least trustworthy to store important information with. Therefor, the reliability and trust of Hotmail are two seperate topics altogether.

Adam Lachlan · 21 Jun 2002, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kyle Babich
I believe the trust and reliability of Hotmail are two seperate topics altogether. Hotmail is definetly one of the most reliable services around, as far as free e-mail. With the financial backing of a multi-billion dollar company as apposed to really small free e-mail companies just barely getting by with an extreme amount of banners on each page, Hotmail will definetly survive longer than most. However, I wouldn't trust them with anything. Their security is a bit more than lacking along with their customer support. With all of the bugs, spam, and viruses flowing through Hotmail all of the time they are one of the least trustworthy to store important information with. Therefore, the reliability and trust of Hotmail are two seperate topics altogether.

I don't resent paying £15 a year for Another.com because they are a reliable service and I trust them with me email. Also, they don't spam you either.

Yes, it was a dodgy poll, but I couldn't think of an alternative. Sorry!

nitripps · 21 Jun 2002, 07:23 PM

i have to differ with you on the question of financial loss and hotmail. they are making a ton of money based on any kind of common sense looking at the numbers. each hotmail subscriber is worth x amount of dollars to lenders and advertisers. every click on something while in hotmail means money in their pockets.
i'm sure that you've noticed that when a link in an email leads you away from hotmail you get the msn logo taking up a portion of someone elses website telling you to "close that window" when you are done because you are visiting a sight outside of hotmail (implying that you shouldn't go there. they do that because they make more money the longer you stay with them. the reason that they are claiming free services are costing them money is because they don't want to offer free services, but they don't want to lose their large numbers either.

to those who believe that they should be able to do as they please, i'm sorry to say that i can't agree there either. they have been found guilty in a u.s. court of being an anti competetive monopoly. they owe retribution to every internet user. i feel that they owe us all a free mailservice that is full featured with large storage. due to their past indiscretions, and flagrant disregard for the law they should never be able to charge for this service.

if providing free services is such a loser for them why do they continue to offer this service? simple answer because it is not a loser. i offer to take this loser off of their hands. i don't here them beating down my door to get rid of their loser, and i know that if i had something costing me a fortune to run and someone offered to take it off my hands i'd wrap it in a giant red bow and say go for the gusto.

nitripps

Jeremy Howard · 21 Jun 2002, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gazania
I think even Fastmail has a variation of it for their free accounts ... though they allow more time than 30 days.

It's not at the moment, but it's something we've listed for a while in our pricing table (we figure it's better to be upfront about stuff like this from when we're considering it...) We still haven't decided whether to do this just for Trash, but to do it for Sent Items too for Guest accounts.

cindy · 21 Jun 2002, 08:05 PM

GMX (supposedly Germany's largest) has been deleting INCOMING and sent messages after 30 days; they have done so for years.
and pinoymail does the same thing after 90 days-always has.

I also find it annoying and don't use these services. No one has to use hotmail.

injinuity · 22 Jun 2002, 04:43 AM

You get what you paid for !! thats the first rule of life.. there is no such thing as a free luch.. why do you expect it my friend??....

And as I mentioned in the other thread, dont use it if you dont like it!!! I don't like it so I dont use it.. simple as that.. you are complainig so I presume that you are still using it.. which would lead to a further assumption that you use it because you like it and not because you don't like it !!!!

And someone mentioned that Hotmail is making money... whoah where did you hear that?... Hotmail is Microsofts biggest money loser.... its a loss leader marketing ploy intented to blend in with the .net strategy... in 2001 hotmail lost millions of dollars... why do you expect them to give you all you want and in the process losing money???..... its wrong on your part to expect that..

Actually its not a bad thing... deleting the sent mails folder, I mean Hotmail will automatcally empty your sent and deleted folders on a monthly basis, this would result in more space for your inbox (after all you've only 2 mb).. if there are important mails in your sent Items folder.. just move it to another folder... is it soooo hard??

Jinu Johnson

Gazania · 22 Jun 2002, 11:25 PM

MAILfreak might be annoyed, others here have a point, too. Like it or not, while there certainly are many advantages to being a "free" user of a service (I stuck that in quotes because there are very few services that are 100% free ... no ads anywhere, no agreement to receive ads in e-mail, etc. Maybe 99.5%, but not 100!

) ... and believe me, I enjoy those advantages as much as the next person! ... the main drawback is that the webservice provider can do pretty much what it wants to do with you (except maybe in privacy matters, and even THAT gets fudged often). It's running the program, it's financing the program, it can change the rules. All one can do in most cases is move or adapt.

A paid service might allow you a little more say in what you want and what you don't, but that isn't always guaranteed, either.

BTW, sorry, Jeremy. I thought that was already a done deal.

No problem either way!

Adam Lachlan · 23 Jun 2002, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by injinuity
you are complainig so I presume that you are still using it.. which would lead to a further assumption that you use it because you like it and not because you don't like it !!!!

Actually, I'm changing accounts to Another.com and Talk21. I set up a Hotmail account in the first place because all my friends are using M$N Messenger. It alerts me when I have mail in my Hotmail account so naturally I'm curious to see if it's important or not. That's the way I cam across the message telling me they're deleting the Sent foler after 30 days.

So technically I'm only half-using Hotmail incase my friend didn't know I've swiched accounts.
MAILfreak

View Poll Results: How much do you trust Hotmail/how reliable is Hotmail?
Microsoft is a reliable company. So, then, is Hotmail	8	14.29%
I'm a bit uncertain. I trust Hotmail, but not a lot.	2	3.57%
I don't trust Hotmail, but they are handy as an extra email account	15	26.79%
Hotmail is one big joke! I wouldn't trust them if they were the last email service around!	17	30.36%
I don't use hotmail	14	25.00%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

21 Jun 2002, 06:42 AM	#5
Gazania Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 181	A few services ... are doing this now. I think even Fastmail has a variation of it for their free accounts ... though they allow more time than 30 days. Moving the stuff and renaming it seems to work ... for now. In the next year or so ... who knows!?

21 Jun 2002, 10:46 AM	#8
Kyle Babich Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 540	I'm suprised that they would do this. I mean, considering they are trying to fill up everyone's mailboxes so that people have to pay for extra storage. Deleting sent messages after 30 days will decrease the space used and enable a more minimal amount of disk space to be used. Don't get me wrong, I don't like this either. I would much rather have permanent records of sent messages instead. EDIT: Also, I believe the trust and reliability of Hotmail are two seperate topics altogether. Hotmail is definetly one of the most reliable services around, as far as free e-mail. With the financial backing of a multi-billion dollar company as apposed to really small free e-mail companies just barely getting by with an extreme amount of banners on each page, Hotmail will definetly survive longer than most. However, I wouldn't trust them with anything. Their security is a bit more than lacking along with their customer support. With all of the bugs, spam, and viruses flowing through Hotmail all of the time they are one of the least trustworthy to store important information with. Therefor, the reliability and trust of Hotmail are two seperate topics altogether. Last edited by Kyle Babich : 21 Jun 2002 at 10:53 AM.

22 Jun 2002, 04:43 AM	#13
injinuity Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 803	You have no reason to be livid my friend. You get what you paid for !! thats the first rule of life.. there is no such thing as a free luch.. why do you expect it my friend??.... And as I mentioned in the other thread, dont use it if you dont like it!!! I don't like it so I dont use it.. simple as that.. you are complainig so I presume that you are still using it.. which would lead to a further assumption that you use it because you like it and not because you don't like it !!!! And someone mentioned that Hotmail is making money... whoah where did you hear that?... Hotmail is Microsofts biggest money loser.... its a loss leader marketing ploy intented to blend in with the .net strategy... in 2001 hotmail lost millions of dollars... why do you expect them to give you all you want and in the process losing money???..... its wrong on your part to expect that.. Actually its not a bad thing... deleting the sent mails folder, I mean Hotmail will automatcally empty your sent and deleted folders on a monthly basis, this would result in more space for your inbox (after all you've only 2 mb).. if there are important mails in your sent Items folder.. just move it to another folder... is it soooo hard?? Jinu Johnson

22 Jun 2002, 11:25 PM	#14
Gazania Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 181	While I can certainly see why MAILfreak might be annoyed, others here have a point, too. Like it or not, while there certainly are many advantages to being a "free" user of a service (I stuck that in quotes because there are very few services that are 100% free ... no ads anywhere, no agreement to receive ads in e-mail, etc. Maybe 99.5%, but not 100! ) ... and believe me, I enjoy those advantages as much as the next person! ... the main drawback is that the webservice provider can do pretty much what it wants to do with you (except maybe in privacy matters, and even THAT gets fudged often). It's running the program, it's financing the program, it can change the rules. All one can do in most cases is move or adapt. A paid service might allow you a little more say in what you want and what you don't, but that isn't always guaranteed, either. BTW, sorry, Jeremy. I thought that was already a done deal. No problem either way!

21 Jun 2002, 06:35 AM	#2
Adam Lachlan Master of the @ Join Date: May 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,004	Agree with me? See also this thread and this thread.

21 Jun 2002, 06:37 AM	#3
robert@fm The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,681	Well, I voted for the "extra account" poll option; but I use them strictly as a tertiary account, i.e. nothing important...

21 Jun 2002, 06:39 AM	#4
robert@fm The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,681	P.S.  I'm surprised you didn't give links to www.hotmailsucks.com and www.hotmailsucks.net...

21 Jun 2002, 06:51 AM	#6
psalzer Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,654	Well, they own the service, so they can do what they want. The truth is, no one really wants a lot of non-paying customers any longer. The big services are not going to make it comfortable for holders of free accounts because on the whole, they'd prefer they were gone and it's the big services that have millions of free accounts that they're now servicing. My feeling is that if you can afford it, pay and you get to be a customer. If you really can't you'd do better with one of the solid but smaller services. Actually, I think that's true if you can pay, too, because one little customer means more to them, if they're running their service well.

21 Jun 2002, 07:23 PM	#10
nitripps Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: northern nevada Posts: 100	i have to differ with you on the question of financial loss and hotmail. they are making a ton of money based on any kind of common sense looking at the numbers. each hotmail subscriber is worth x amount of dollars to lenders and advertisers. every click on something while in hotmail means money in their pockets. i'm sure that you've noticed that when a link in an email leads you away from hotmail you get the msn logo taking up a portion of someone elses website telling you to "close that window" when you are done because you are visiting a sight outside of hotmail (implying that you shouldn't go there. they do that because they make more money the longer you stay with them. the reason that they are claiming free services are costing them money is because they don't want to offer free services, but they don't want to lose their large numbers either. to those who believe that they should be able to do as they please, i'm sorry to say that i can't agree there either. they have been found guilty in a u.s. court of being an anti competetive monopoly. they owe retribution to every internet user. i feel that they owe us all a free mailservice that is full featured with large storage. due to their past indiscretions, and flagrant disregard for the law they should never be able to charge for this service. if providing free services is such a loser for them why do they continue to offer this service? simple answer because it is not a loser. i offer to take this loser off of their hands. i don't here them beating down my door to get rid of their loser, and i know that if i had something costing me a fortune to run and someone offered to take it off my hands i'd wrap it in a giant red bow and say go for the gusto. nitripps

21 Jun 2002, 08:05 PM	#12
cindy Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 53	GMX (supposedly Germany's largest) has been deleting INCOMING and sent messages after 30 days; they have done so for years. and pinoymail does the same thing after 90 days-always has. I also find it annoying and don't use these services. No one has to use hotmail.