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Old 4 Jul 2017, 07:53 AM   #541
ellentk
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhollington
If you're using your own domain, then any address at that domain will always be okay....we're rapidly getting to a place where you're going to find that even sending messages with FastMail from a valid address you have on another service. . . will cause problems
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I'm curious about something.

When I send an email through fastmail's smtp servers using a from address from either a domain that I own or a legitimate address at an ISP, how do fastmail's servers know I own the domain and have an account at the ISP? Suppose I need to send email from a group I belong to in my capacity as the group's secretary, say, when I don't own the group's domain?

Will all these legitimate uses of email become difficult and ultimately impossible?
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 08:28 AM   #542
n5bb
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Posts: 8,245
Yes, that's where there will be more and more problems in the future, Ellen.
  • If you own a domain, you will be able to specify exactly which SMTP servers are allowed to send for your domain. The way you do this is with DMARC and SPF records in the DNS of the domain you control, and appropriate use of DKIM in the SMTP servers you use for your domain. You can choose to not do this, but eventually as more and more domains use DMARC your domain might be viewed as encouraging spammers.
  • If you don't own a domain (you are just a user of Gmail, Yahoo, Fastmail, or some other email service), you will have to follow the policy of the owner of the domain. For Gmail and Yahoo, you need to use their outgoing SMTP servers already or you may have some difficulties.
It's not just Fastmail wanting to be sure you have a Gmail account, it's Gmail not allowing anyone to send with a Gmail From address unless it's through the Gmail SMTP server. This is how SPF, DKIM, and DMARC work -- they allow Gmail (or any owner of a domain) to specify that only certain SMTP servers are allowed to send messages for that domain. I'm using Gmail as an example, but this applies to any domain which publishes a DMARC policy.

At this time, Fastmail doesn't publish a restrictive DMARC policy for their domains. But this will probably eventually change.
https://blog.fastmail.com/2016/12/24/spf-dkim-dmarc/

Bill

Last edited by n5bb : 4 Jul 2017 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 10:05 AM   #543
ellentk
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Posts: 207
Thanks, Bill. Good information.

I don't use gmail but have a Spectrum (formerly Time Warner) account.
Their webmail interface is pretty basic and, when I'm away from my desktop,
I prefer sending email from that address through fastmail. Have any of the
cable companies done anything or announced they plan to do something
about this issue?
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 10:18 AM   #544
jhollington
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Posts: 345
What Bill said.

Just to add to that, however, it's worth noting that if you use FastMail as your DNS provider for your own domain, default SPF and DKIM records will be published, although the default SPF record is "neutral" in that it specifies FastMai's servers, but doesn't declare those as the only servers authorized. Therefore, most receiving servers shouldn't get too cranky about receiving e-mail messages from non-FastMail services. Further, FastMail won't automatically publish a DMARC record for your own domain that's up to you if you want to do so.

Also, just to clarify some of the terminology here...

SPF: Defines which e-mail servers are authorized to send mail for a given domain.
DKIM: Specifies the signature to be used when sending messages from a given domain.
DMARC: Specifies the policy that should be used when looking at SPF and DKIM records* that is, what to do when a message comes from a server not authorized by SPF, or has a missing or invalid DKIM signature.

SPF records can also assert three levels for the servers listed, ranging from "never accept e-mail from any server not listed here" (-all) to "View anything that doesn't originate from these servers with some suspicion" (~all) to "Here's a list of servers, but I'm not saying these are the only ones" (?all).

DMARC records can range from having a policy of "none" (basically telling the server to generate reports, but take no other action) to "reject" which basically tells the receiving server to refuse to accept any messages that fail SPF or DKIM tests.

For example, here's the SPF record for fastmail.com:

Code:
"v=spf1 include:spf.messagingengine.com ?all"
This lists the servers that are authorized to send mail from "fastmail.com" in a list at spf.messagingengine.com, asserting that while a list has been provided, it's really for reference purposes only.

On the other hand, Google has a record like this for gmail.com:

Code:
"v=spf1 include:_netblocks.google.com include:_netblocks2.google.com include:_netblocks3.google.com ~all"
In this case, three lists of servers are provided, and the "~all" suggests that any other servers sending mail from gmail.com should be viewed with suspicion which usually means that messages with a "gmail.com" address that come from other servers, such as FastMail, will be more likely to be classified as spam.

Of course, how receiving mail servers factor in all of these isn't as standard as it should be; some servers still ignore SPF/DMARC records entirely, while others may incorrectly weigh a "neutral" (?all) SPF record more heavily than it should be.

Further, while receiving mail servers are supposed to look at the DMARC record to decide what to do about the SPF and DKIM records, not all yet do this. While very few servers will reject mail based solely on an SPF record, it still often gets factored into spam scores by many systems, regardless of whether a DMARC record is even published or not.

For the most part, most providers at this point would rather err on the side of caution SPF and DMARC records are generally pretty permissive but this is slowly changing, so it's better to be prepared for this new reality at the outset rather than being caught by surprise.
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 10:44 AM   #545
n5bb
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What jhollington said. <LOL>
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellentk View Post
...Have any of the
cable companies done anything or announced they plan to do something
about this issue?
Go to this website and enter the domain (everything to the right of the @ in your email address). If you try this for a Fastmail-owned domain, you will get a policy (p) of "none". For yahoo.com and Microsoft.com the policy is "reject".
https://dmarcian.com/dmarc-inspector/

Bill
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 04:23 PM   #546
ellentk
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Thanks, guys, for teaching me a lot.

Thanks too for that link, Bill. I'll check it every so often.
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 07:32 PM   #547
Terry
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n5bb View Post
Yes, that's where there will be more and more problems in the future, Ellen.[list][*] If you own a domain, you will be able to specify exactly which SMTP servers are allowed to send for your domain. The way you do this is with DMARC and SPF records in the DNS of the domain you control, and appropriate use of DKIM in the SMTP servers you use for your domain. You can choose to not do this, but eventually as more and more domains use DMARC your domain might be viewed as encouraging spammers.
Bill
So will Fastmail do these setting for us or will we have to fiddle in our domain control with in fastmail?
Long term would I be better off dumping my domain and just use a fastmail domain.
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 08:10 PM   #548
BritTim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
So will Fastmail do these setting for us or will we have to fiddle in our domain control with in fastmail?
Long term would I be better off dumping my domain and just use a fastmail domain.
FastMail will provide some default settings for your domain that should be fine in most cases. You can adjust the settings should some unusual circumstance make that prudent.

I would strongly advise you to stay with your own domain. While you may wish to remain with FastMail right now, there is no telling what the future might bring.Having your own domain makes it far easier to switch to another provider should that ever be necessary.
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Old 4 Jul 2017, 10:01 PM   #549
Terry
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Location: VK4
Posts: 2,519
I enjoy using my own domain but it must work 100% I don't want my mail to be rejected, in the past I have finished up in a few junk mail folders because fastmail were listed as a free email service, but I hope now that will eventually change as its no longer a free email provider....well only a few weeks to go.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 12:08 AM   #550
Gsptlsnz
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Something else different is any unread emails that get sent to the Trash folder do NOT change the count.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 02:43 AM   #551
n5bb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsptlsnz View Post
Something else different is any unread emails that get sent to the Trash folder do NOT change the count.
Yes, all messages in the Trash folder are automatically forced to be "read". The system assumes you are in the process of getting rid of them. The Archive folder is set up for messages you want to keep.

Bill
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 03:04 AM   #552
joe_devore
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I hid my "Archive" as its useless to me..
I use/have around 60!! custom folders to sort everything I have into named folders
that help me organize everything
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 03:32 AM   #553
jhollington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
I enjoy using my own domain but it must work 100% I don't want my mail to be rejected, in the past I have finished up in a few junk mail folders because fastmail were listed as a free email service, but I hope now that will eventually change as its no longer a free email provider....well only a few weeks to go.
Well, that's assuming that the destination providers out there get with the program in terms of whatever "lists" they're using and FastMail gets updated that quickly. I wouldn't hold my breath.

Personally, I find restrictions based on "free email services" to be needlessly draconian, but that's the problem with spam filtering.... every provider has their own way of handling it and scoring messages as spam or not-spam. Some, like FastMail, allow users to customize their settings, while others just arbitrarily apply them to all of their users.

Further, "free email services" could be filtered based on domain name or server name. If it's based on domain name, using your own domain will help, but if it's based on the server name, then even your own domain name doesn't solve the problem, as all of your messages are still going out from the same servers at FastMail (along with messages from every other domain hosted by FastMail). This is why FastMail actually has to be very diligent in ensuring that things are locked down on this end one really bad actor could easily create problems for every other FastMail user.

Leaving aside problems with excessive filtering on the receiving end, the records that FastMail publishes for your custom domain by default should be more than adequate by default, you get a "neutral" SPF record, a DKIM record, and no DMARC policy at all, which should tell servers to pretty much let anything from your domain through. The only reason to change those records is if you want a more restrictive policy to prevent people from forging your address from elsewhere.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 03:54 AM   #554
Gsptlsnz
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: 5th Dimension
Posts: 122
This is my custom CSS code. Makes the screen look similar to Concise.

You'll need the FF add-on "Stylish",
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/stylish/

---

@-moz-document domain("fastmail.com") {

/* Shows no. of files per folder */
.v-FolderSource:after {
content: " " attr(title);
font-size:12pt;
color:darkgreen;
}

/* Box at screen bottom that shows space left */
.v-UsageInfo {
color:black;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Makes the check-boxes 3-D. */
.app-listItem-boxInput {
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Sets the color of email windows on the main screen */
.app-listItem {
background-color:#F5F5F5;
}

/* Makes pinned rows ivory */
.is-pinned {
background-color:aliceblue;
}

/* Puts a thin border between the emails */
.v-MailboxItem {
border-top:1px solid black;
}

/* Makes Name of Sender Green */
.v-MailboxItem-from {
color:darkgreen;
}

/* Sets color/size of the previews */
.v-MailboxItem-preview {
color:black;
font-size:12pt;
}

/* Makes the address book drop-down menu larger */
.v-AutoComplete {
font-size:14pt;
}

/* Makes word 'To' crimson */
.s-compose-to {
font-size:16pt;
color:crimson;
}

/* Makes word 'Subject' green */
.s-compose-subject {
font-size:11pt;
color:green;
}

/* Shows name of Folder you are in */
.v-MessageCard-folder {
background-color:hotpink;
padding-left:4px;
padding-right:4px;
font-size:12.5pt;
color:white;
text-shadow:1px 1px 1px #000;
border-radius:5px;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Makes email addy navy */
.v-EmailText-ghost {
color:navy;
}

/* Makes name of email writer green */
.v-MessageCard-fromAndPreview {
font-size:14pt;
color:darkgreen;
}

/* Affects 'Mail' in upper left corner */
.v-MainNavToolbar-appName {
color:gold;
font-weight:bold;
text-shadow:1px 1px 1px #000;
}

/* User name in red letters */
.v-MainNavToolbar-userName {
color:red;
border-bottom:1px solid white;
}

/* Makes sidebar look like Concise */
.app-sidebar {
background-color:#F0E68C;
color:navy;
}

a:link {
color:navy;
text-decoration:none;
}

a:hover {
color:#DD0000;
}

/* Affects 'Newer' and 'Older' links at page top */
.v-ThreadNav-text {
color:red;
font-weight:bold;
font-size:13pt;
text-shadow:1px 1px 1px #000;
}

/* Adds gold box around 'Show Details' link */
.u-subtleLink {
color:navy;
background-color:gold;
padding-left:3px;
padding-right:3px;
border-radius:4px;
}

/* Controls textarea where you read the email */
.v-Message-body {
background-color:#F5F5F5;
padding:5px;
width:748px;
font-family:verdana;
font-size:13pt;
margin-bottom:15px;
margin-top:15px;
border-radius:11px;
border:1px solid #F5F5F5;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

span {
font-size:11pt;
}

.v-MessageCard-time, .v-Compose-lastSaved {
margin-top:-5px;
padding:0px;
background-color:transparent;
color:darkgreen;
}

/* Affects the Red and White square on the upper left */
.icon-compose {
color:crimson;
background-color:white;
padding:3px;
border-radius:4px;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Makes 'Reply' and 'Send' Buttons Green */
.icon-reply, .icon-paper-plane {
color:black;
background-color:lime;
border-radius:4px;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Turns 'Draft' Button Yellow */
.icon-cloud-upload {
color:yellow;
background-color:black;
border-radius:4px;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Adds shading to the toolbars */
.app-viewBar, .v-Toolbar, .app-toolbar {
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Controls the textarea where you write emails */
.v-Text {
border-radius:11px;
background-color:#F5DEB3;
border:2px solid #808080;
font-size:13pt;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Makes 'Trash Can' Icon Crimson */
.icon-remove {
color:crimson;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
border-radius:4px;
}

/* Makes 'Drafts' Icon Purple */
.icon-file {
color:purple;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
border-radius:4px;
}

/* Affects 'Delete Draft' Icon */
.icon-blocked {
color:red;
background-color:white;
border-radius:9px;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

/* Affects 'Archive' Icon */
.icon-box {
color:goldenrod;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
border-radius:4px;
}

h1 {
font-weight:bold;
color:#A10000;
border-bottom:0px solid black;
text-shadow:1px 1px 1px #808080;
}

.v-ComposeFrom-name {
margin-top:-8px;
}

.app-main {
background-color:beige;
}

select {
font-size:12.5pt;
font-weight:normal;
font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
cursor:pointer;
border-color:black;
color:#00FF00;
background-color:black;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
text-transform:capitalize;
}

option {
font-size:12.5pt;
font-weight:normal;
font-family:verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;
cursor:pointer;
border-color:black;
color:#00FF00;
background-color:black;
box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
}

}

Last edited by Gsptlsnz : 5 Jul 2017 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 5 Jul 2017, 04:35 AM   #555
joe_devore
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dover, NH, USA
Posts: 294
Whooo now THAT'S IMPRESSIVE set of tweaks!!

EDIT:
questions on modifying YOUR script tweaks:
Code:
/* Shows no. of files per folder */
.v-FolderSource:after {
content: " " attr(title);
font-size:12pt;
color:darkgreen;
}
I need it to align to the right margin, so its out of the way... plus is it possible to make it so its just numbers like in the Classic UI
- (NEW/total) pretty please! lol

and not the rather cluttering word "messages"?

yeah... this tweak is too messy clutter like..
though I already had this tweaks from some one else I still appreciate you listing them all IMPRESSIVE YEAH!


I tweaked this one to make the [hr] green
Code:
  /* Puts a thin border between the emails */
  .v-MailboxItem
  {
  border-top:1px solid green;
  }

I could not figure out what this one does.. so I left it out of my selection of your tweaks for now:
Code:
  /* Adds shading to the toolbars */
  .app-viewBar, .v-Toolbar, .app-toolbar
  {
  box-shadow:5px 5px 5px rgba(0,0,0,.25), 0 0 20px transparent inset, 0 0 1px rgba(255,255,255,0.5) inset;
  }

so YEAH THX
I used I figure about 80% of the tweaks you provided/SHARED!!!!
THIS MADE MY DAY!!

I especially like this one:
Code:
/* Puts a thin border between the emails */
.v-MailboxItem
{
border-top:2px solid black;
}
plus I tweaked it just 1 pixel thicker!!
NO MORE FOLDERS FILLED with ENDLESS emails
so hard to tell them apart! ;p ;p


I would like the folder count one if you can figure out to
make it like the Classic UI:
label: "(NEW/Total)" alligned to right margin so its out of the way of folder names and less clutter...
if you can that would me AMAZING/AWESOME/PERFECT/GLORY!!!

Last edited by joe_devore : 5 Jul 2017 at 06:16 AM.
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