New Compose screen ideas

Jeremy Howard · 28 Nov 2001, 11:46 AM

The amazing Zetokore has turned his attention to the Compose screen, and his new interface ideas are here: http://www.mudzine.com/fastmail/compose.html

So, what to you all think?

***Edwin*** · 28 Nov 2001, 11:50 AM

Immediate reaction: colour the "Cancel" and "Send" buttons differently

There's nothing I hate more than typing for ages then pressing Cancel or Clear or the like by accident because I'm too bleary-eyed to notice.

Perhaps red for Cancel, green for Send. I see no problem at all in having more than 3-4 colours on screen at once, provided it SIMPLIFIES the experience without jarring the eye too much.

pobelly · 28 Nov 2001, 12:08 PM

i think what would delight me, personally, to see changed on the compose screen would be scrimping a little so as to give more vertical dimension to the textfield... maybe i'm just claustrophobic or something, but i always feel a little cramped by this aspect ratio... more so, probably, when replying with quoted text interspersed than when just typing out a paragraph or two... is it just me?

Jeremy Howard · 28 Nov 2001, 12:10 PM

OK, here's my preliminary comments... Please note that they're just my current opinion, and I'm completely open to alternative suggestions. I'm very keen to here what everyone else thinks--I'm sure that's lots of other good ideas out there!

The nav bar should have nothing but Help. Jumping to another screen will cause your email to disappear, so we shouldn't make that easy! Clicking 'cancel' should be the only way to lose an email... For the same reason, the Folders bit on the left should not be there. It's OK to have 'Help' because it opens a new window, which does not lose the current message.

The Address Book popup should show the last 10 entered addresses, then a '--Quick addresses' line, then as many addresses as you have marked 'Quick link' in the Address Book (we'll add this check-box to that screen). I don't want all my addresses appearing in the compose screen popup--I have around a thousand! So we still need the 'Address Book' button.

There (maybe) should be some way to have the JavaScript thingy add to the Cc or Bcc line instead. If there's no elegent way to achieve this, then don't worry about it.

You do not need separate 'From' and 'Signature' fields. We will shortly be combining these into a single 'Personality' which combines the two, so we may as well use this concept in the mock-up. There should be an 'Edit' button next the the Personality popup.

Here's a contraversial idea... What if the 'To' 'Cc' and 'Bcc' field labels were actually buttons, and caused the contents of the address popup to be put there? And the 'Address Book' label was a button that went to the Address Book screen... And the 'Personalities' label was a button that went to the Edit Personalities screen... You'd need some nifty CSS tricks to make these labels still look sensible! The way Outlook Express handles this is that the 'To' etc labels look like normal labels until you wave your pointer over them, when they become bevelled. I don't know if CSS supports this...

There should be a new popup called 'Save to', which lists your folders, plus the item "Don't Save". Currently we just have something in the Preferences screen to turn on saving to Sent Items on or off globally. This enhancement will make that more flexible.

There should be room to add 3 attachments without going to a separate screen. Modem users want to avoid server round-trips as much as possible, so adding up to 3 attachments is very convenient.

Try adding attachments to the current Compose screen, and click 'Check' so they actually get uploaded. Note how they are listed, and can be selected and removed. I think they at least need to be listed. Possibly you could have it so they can only be removed from the separate Attachments screen, but given that I think you need a list box to list them anyway my guess is that you don't win anything by removing the 'Remove' button.

The Attachments link needs to be a button. It is not possible to save the message with a link.

I like having the subject line the full width of the window. It's not a big deal, but it can be handy.

Phew! I think that's it... for now... I hope you don't mind all the suggestions, Steve. I really appreciate the effort that you're putting into this.

And yes, feel free to put JavaScript in. The only rule there is that on non-JS browsers we will not display JS-only widgets, so JS functionality needs to still be accessible for non-JS browsers. The Address Book meets this rule, for instance, but only if there is also an 'Address Book' button.

pobelly · 28 Nov 2001, 12:13 PM

as for the color of the 'cancel' vs. 'send' buttons: do the buttons support hover colors? then you could make them pretty while they aren't doing anything, but flash a 'red' or 'green' type signal when you go to click on them... as sort of a compromise, i guess.

Jeremy Howard · 28 Nov 2001, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pobelly
i think what would delight me, personally, to see changed on the compose screen would be scrimping a little so as to give more vertical dimension to the textfield...

I forgot to mention--one of the things on our todo list is to add '>>' and '<<' links under the textarea, and '^^' and 'vv' links to the right (or something similar). These will make the textarea larger/smaller vertically/horizontally, and will be automatically saved for next time you compose a mesage. Of course, at the moment you can pick large/very large screen sizes to get a similar result, but it's not as customised.

zetokore · 28 Nov 2001, 01:48 PM

http://www.mudzine.com/fastmail/compose.html

Ok I've tried to implement most of your suggestions. I was imagining the 'to', 'cc', and 'bcc' being links to a pop-up address window. The 'Address Book' header also acts as a link that would take you to the main address book screen. It's not as clear as an 'Address Book' button, but that line is already pretty long. I'm open to suggestions!
One thing I disagree with Jeremy on is how to deal with attachments, which is why I didn't change that just yet.

I don't believe people use attachments frequent enough (much less more than 1 attachment) to warrant taking that much room between the message textfield and the 'send' button. It adds to the clutter you see at the end of the screen, when the majority of the time after you've typed your message, all you're after is the 'send' button. Any thoughts?

Steve

pobelly · 28 Nov 2001, 01:49 PM

Quote:

I forgot to mention--one of the things on our todo list is ..... will be automatically saved for next time you compose a mesage.

that'll be great! is it on the To Do This Year list? =)

on the subject of attachments (and i mentioned this in a mail to webmasterATfastmail a little while back, but this seems like the open forum to discuss it in): would it be possible to open the attachment page in a new window, as the help screen does, and still make it all work together? then providing for three slots in the compose screen wouldn't be as much of an issue, you wouldn't have to 'round-trip', and maybe just possibly there would be a way to have attachments uploading while you compose your message (great time-saver on slow connection)... of course, i'm just throwing this out sort of abstractly, since for all i know, none of it is feasible.

Jeremy Howard · 28 Nov 2001, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zetokore
I was imagining the 'to', 'cc', and 'bcc' being links to a pop-up address window. The 'Address Book' header also acts as a link that would take you to the main address book screen. It's not as clear as an 'Address Book' button, but that line is already pretty long. I'm open to suggestions!

I think the 'Address Book' button should bring up the popup window. No need to have three links that do much the same thing! Then the To/Cc/Bcc links can grab the address book popup value, which would be handy. On browsers that don't support popup windows, Address Book has to be a button, since otherwise the message gets lost (links can not save stuff back to the server, only buttons can). But we can code that on the server so it is only a button on those browsers that require it. If we're making the labels do stuff, then you may as well get rid of the Personality Edit button and make the label pop up the Personalities screen.

Quote:

One thing I disagree with Jeremy on is how to deal with attachments, which is why I didn't change that just yet.

I don't believe people use attachments frequent enough (much less more than 1 attachment) to warrant taking that much room between the message textfield and the 'send' button.

Well, I'm happy to debate this one a bit... Many people send a lot of attachments frequently (like myself, for one), and don't want to have to go to a separate screen to do so. And even if I do go to a separate screen to add attachments, when I then forget whether I added some attachment, I don't want to go back to the other screen to check whether I remembered to add some particular file. That's why currently you see all the attachments that you've added in the Compose screen, and can add 3 right there.

I think that if you have more than one attachment box, you'll have to move the attachments down to the bottom row. Put Save To: above Action:, Cancel above Send:, and the attachment browse links + list box + More button in the middle. Then you could shift the Address Book stuff one cell down, and make the To: line double width, which could be handy.

Just my AUD$0.02...

Jeremy Howard · 28 Nov 2001, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pobelly
that'll be great! is it on the To Do This Year list? =)

Probably not. I doubt any interface enhancement will be done this year. But who knows...

Quote:

would it be possible to open the attachment page in a new window, as the help screen does, and still make it all work together?

Rob and I have chatted about this, but haven't really resolved it yet. It's probably possible, but it's also difficult. It doesn't remove the round-trip issue though, because to open the popup attachments window you still have to go to the server.

timpi · 28 Nov 2001, 11:36 PM

another solution: put the "Cancel" action into the "Action:" drop-down box, no? the risk to cancel by accident is much smaller. but of course, if you have to cancel much, the number of clicks is larger...

DippyTwitty · 29 Nov 2001, 12:00 AM

I think Jeremy, that you are perhaps the exception to the rule -- most people hardly send attachments ever! Those of us who do, I think quite often zip up multiple files (at least those of us with those pokey 56k connections) so even then only send one.

As much as I hate to suggest adding even more complexity to the system, I would rave over any system that allowed me to, like pobelly mentioned, scrimp on the stuff I don't use. IMHO, the same goes for the Cc?Bcc fields and the address book widgets. Since screen (or browser window) space is expensive, anything you put above the text-entry control is twice as costly (stuff below will go off the bottom of the screen so it doesn't get in the way).

So what would satisfy both your way of using it, and mine, would be more links like those >> and << ones you mentioned. One that 'opens' those fields up for when we need them, and 'closes' or hides them for when we don't. One that 'opens' the multiple attachments (heck you could have it open 4 or 5, since only those who like it would see it) and closes them.

Most importantly, like the << links, they would 'save' your preference for the next time. So you can have your cake and I can eat it... no I can eat your cake and... no you can cut my cake... well, you know.

For what it's worth, my $0.02 on other issues: I agree with the long subject line, and I also (because of the scroll-off-the-bottom point I made above) love it when Send/Cancel are duplicated at the top.

Great work guys - oh and I love that color scheme we're not supposed to use - THANK YOU!

Dip

robmueller · 29 Nov 2001, 08:11 PM

I had some ideas for the compose screen as well. I took the latest version from mudzine and modified it with my ideas. Take a look at:

http://fastmail.fm/docs/misc/fm_compose.htm

Some other thoughts:
1. Double clicking on items in the list adds to 'To' by default
2. If javascript enabled, clicking << buttons use JS, otherwise does server round-trip
3. I'd put the 3 attachments lines back in at the bottom. I really like that, often I only have 1 or 2 attachments to add to a message

Just my ideas...

Rob

pobelly · 29 Nov 2001, 09:02 PM

i like the address book field... maybe there's a way to use some of the space to the right of the message body field instead of having the 'edit' buttons hang off the edge of the screen at 600x800 (with normal font size)?

ikxu · 29 Nov 2001, 11:34 PM

I was going to start typing when I read Jeremy's <<OK, here's my preliminary comments...>>
My words exactly so why should I write the exact same thing

Just joking. I will go now and look at what Rob posted (his link) and see what is all about.
Take care.
ikxu

28 Nov 2001, 11:46 AM	#1
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	New Compose screen ideas The amazing Zetokore has turned his attention to the Compose screen, and his new interface ideas are here: http://www.mudzine.com/fastmail/compose.html So, what to you all think?

28 Nov 2001, 11:36 PM	#11
timpi Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: belgium Posts: 154	cancel button another solution: put the "Cancel" action into the "Action:" drop-down box, no? the risk to cancel by accident is much smaller. but of course, if you have to cancel much, the number of clicks is larger...

29 Nov 2001, 12:00 AM	#12
DippyTwitty Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 107	re: Attachments I think Jeremy, that you are perhaps the exception to the rule -- most people hardly send attachments ever! Those of us who do, I think quite often zip up multiple files (at least those of us with those pokey 56k connections) so even then only send one. As much as I hate to suggest adding even more complexity to the system, I would rave over any system that allowed me to, like pobelly mentioned, scrimp on the stuff I don't use. IMHO, the same goes for the Cc?Bcc fields and the address book widgets. Since screen (or browser window) space is expensive, anything you put above the text-entry control is twice as costly (stuff below will go off the bottom of the screen so it doesn't get in the way). So what would satisfy both your way of using it, and mine, would be more links like those >> and << ones you mentioned. One that 'opens' those fields up for when we need them, and 'closes' or hides them for when we don't. One that 'opens' the multiple attachments (heck you could have it open 4 or 5, since only those who like it would see it) and closes them. Most importantly, like the << links, they would 'save' your preference for the next time. So you can have your cake and I can eat it... no I can eat your cake and... no you can cut my cake... well, you know. For what it's worth, my $0.02 on other issues: I agree with the long subject line, and I also (because of the scroll-off-the-bottom point I made above) love it when Send/Cancel are duplicated at the top. Great work guys - oh and I love that color scheme we're not supposed to use - THANK YOU! Dip

29 Nov 2001, 11:34 PM	#15
ikxu Guest Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 400	My two cents I was going to start typing when I read Jeremy's <<OK, here's my preliminary comments...>> My words exactly so why should I write the exact same thing Just joking. I will go now and look at what Rob posted (his link) and see what is all about. Take care. ikxu

28 Nov 2001, 11:50 AM	#2
*Edwin* Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: UK Posts: 3,118	Immediate reaction: colour the "Cancel" and "Send" buttons differently There's nothing I hate more than typing for ages then pressing Cancel or Clear or the like by accident because I'm too bleary-eyed to notice. Perhaps red for Cancel, green for Send. I see no problem at all in having more than 3-4 colours on screen at once, provided it SIMPLIFIES the experience without jarring the eye too much.

28 Nov 2001, 12:08 PM	#3
pobelly Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 586	i think what would delight me, personally, to see changed on the compose screen would be scrimping a little so as to give more vertical dimension to the textfield... maybe i'm just claustrophobic or something, but i always feel a little cramped by this aspect ratio... more so, probably, when replying with quoted text interspersed than when just typing out a paragraph or two... is it just me?

28 Nov 2001, 12:10 PM	#4
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	OK, here's my preliminary comments... Please note that they're just my current opinion, and I'm completely open to alternative suggestions. I'm very keen to here what everyone else thinks--I'm sure that's lots of other good ideas out there! The nav bar should have nothing but Help. Jumping to another screen will cause your email to disappear, so we shouldn't make that easy! Clicking 'cancel' should be the only way to lose an email... For the same reason, the Folders bit on the left should not be there. It's OK to have 'Help' because it opens a new window, which does not lose the current message. The Address Book popup should show the last 10 entered addresses, then a '--Quick addresses' line, then as many addresses as you have marked 'Quick link' in the Address Book (we'll add this check-box to that screen). I don't want all my addresses appearing in the compose screen popup--I have around a thousand! So we still need the 'Address Book' button. There (maybe) should be some way to have the JavaScript thingy add to the Cc or Bcc line instead. If there's no elegent way to achieve this, then don't worry about it. You do not need separate 'From' and 'Signature' fields. We will shortly be combining these into a single 'Personality' which combines the two, so we may as well use this concept in the mock-up. There should be an 'Edit' button next the the Personality popup. Here's a contraversial idea... What if the 'To' 'Cc' and 'Bcc' field labels were actually buttons, and caused the contents of the address popup to be put there? And the 'Address Book' label was a button that went to the Address Book screen... And the 'Personalities' label was a button that went to the Edit Personalities screen... You'd need some nifty CSS tricks to make these labels still look sensible! The way Outlook Express handles this is that the 'To' etc labels look like normal labels until you wave your pointer over them, when they become bevelled. I don't know if CSS supports this... There should be a new popup called 'Save to', which lists your folders, plus the item "Don't Save". Currently we just have something in the Preferences screen to turn on saving to Sent Items on or off globally. This enhancement will make that more flexible. There should be room to add 3 attachments without going to a separate screen. Modem users want to avoid server round-trips as much as possible, so adding up to 3 attachments is very convenient. Try adding attachments to the current Compose screen, and click 'Check' so they actually get uploaded. Note how they are listed, and can be selected and removed. I think they at least need to be listed. Possibly you could have it so they can only be removed from the separate Attachments screen, but given that I think you need a list box to list them anyway my guess is that you don't win anything by removing the 'Remove' button. The Attachments link needs to be a button. It is not possible to save the message with a link. I like having the subject line the full width of the window. It's not a big deal, but it can be handy. Phew! I think that's it... for now... I hope you don't mind all the suggestions, Steve. I really appreciate the effort that you're putting into this. And yes, feel free to put JavaScript in. The only rule there is that on non-JS browsers we will not display JS-only widgets, so JS functionality needs to still be accessible for non-JS browsers. The Address Book meets this rule, for instance, but only if there is also an 'Address Book' button.

28 Nov 2001, 12:13 PM	#5
pobelly Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 586	as for the color of the 'cancel' vs. 'send' buttons: do the buttons support hover colors? then you could make them pretty while they aren't doing anything, but flash a 'red' or 'green' type signal when you go to click on them... as sort of a compromise, i guess.

28 Nov 2001, 01:48 PM	#7
zetokore Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 64	http://www.mudzine.com/fastmail/compose.html Ok I've tried to implement most of your suggestions. I was imagining the 'to', 'cc', and 'bcc' being links to a pop-up address window. The 'Address Book' header also acts as a link that would take you to the main address book screen. It's not as clear as an 'Address Book' button, but that line is already pretty long. I'm open to suggestions! One thing I disagree with Jeremy on is how to deal with attachments, which is why I didn't change that just yet. I don't believe people use attachments frequent enough (much less more than 1 attachment) to warrant taking that much room between the message textfield and the 'send' button. It adds to the clutter you see at the end of the screen, when the majority of the time after you've typed your message, all you're after is the 'send' button. Any thoughts? Steve

29 Nov 2001, 08:11 PM	#13
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	I had some ideas for the compose screen as well. I took the latest version from mudzine and modified it with my ideas. Take a look at: http://fastmail.fm/docs/misc/fm_compose.htm Some other thoughts: 1. Double clicking on items in the list adds to 'To' by default 2. If javascript enabled, clicking << buttons use JS, otherwise does server round-trip 3. I'd put the 3 attachments lines back in at the bottom. I really like that, often I only have 1 or 2 attachments to add to a message Just my ideas... Rob

29 Nov 2001, 09:02 PM	#14
pobelly Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 586	i like the address book field... maybe there's a way to use some of the space to the right of the message body field instead of having the 'edit' buttons hang off the edge of the screen at 600x800 (with normal font size)?