A small question about FM - Page 2

Jeremy Howard · 29 Dec 2001, 07:35 PM

If it doesn't have last modified, it means that replication will be a bit less capable--if we don't know when an entry was modified, then we don't know if it was changed since last time we synced. So backends that don't have last modified date will only sync deletions and addtions, not edits.

OO Perl is available from Amazon.com if it's not available in your corner of the world otherwise. It's particularly poorly distributed by the publisher, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can't find it in your local bookstore.

neerav · 30 Dec 2001, 01:40 AM

Good gnus, I mean news. (that was a Larsonian slip). The only difference in Mac and Win address books is the line feed/CR/newline thing. And different file names, of course. Check your email. It's all there.

Eudora (for Mac) has a nice little conduit for syncing with PDA's, so I'm sure the last modified info is located somewhere. I've found some exciting prospective data, but it's garbled no matter what I use. Still looking, but this one's not as easy.

--Neerav

Jeremy Howard · 30 Dec 2001, 07:26 AM

Possibly you'd be better of looking on the Eudora web-site for information about their API (application programming interface). This would let you directly work with their address book using the same DLL functions that Eudora itself does, rather than having to reverse engineer their file format. This is how I accessed the Outlook Express address book, for instance.

PS: Isn't that more of a Stallmanian slip? (http://www.gnu.org).

neerav · 30 Dec 2001, 05:05 PM

I HAVE been intensely searching their site. Eudora isn't exactly known for it's service/support of their email clients.

EIMS (their mail server) gets much better support.

With eudora it's better to tinker yourself or get help on a user group. I'm doing both right now.

--Neerav

P.S. "While visions of gnus were dancing in my head." I had been thinking of Gary Larson's cartoon where there is a news stand guy telling a customer, "I've got good gnus, and I've got bad news". Behind him are three anti-social looking "bad" gnus, and three pristine looking "good" gnus. heheheheh I'm a Larson fan all the way! ...much before I had known of GNU.

mvpittman · 2 Feb 2002, 03:37 AM

Hello,

I've been a Eudora and IMAP user for a long time. Recently I quit using Eudora because I had problems with subfolders.

In short, I'd like to go back to Eudora, and I'm going to try to dedicate myself to helping out and finding a solution.

I'd love to have ACAP set up, but I guess an address book synchronization script for each client is okay too. Would support of the standard be easier than just scripting a custom solution for each client?

I had a few computer science classes, but I'm a technical writer in "real life". I can't do much OO programming or Perl scripting.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, somebody is using Eudora and it's working out for them. So I imagine that I can get it to work too... I got the sub-folder problem to go away in Netscape 6.21 by changing the folder delimiter for inbox as described in these threads:

http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...ghlight=eudora

http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...ghlight=eudora

Perhaps Eudora's problem (or rather, my problem) can be solved by finding the file or setting that identifies the delimiter on folders...

If I get things right with Eudora, I'll be glad to help out with the testing bit on any address book syncs and such.

-- Marland

Jeremy Howard · 2 Feb 2002, 05:24 AM

Marland, Neerav actually forwarded me an email recently from Eudora's tech support in which they said that they do not have a workaround for the problem and do not plan to fix it. I forwarded him a reference to the relevent RFC that describes the behaviour that they are incorrectly implementing, and never heard back.

Jeremy Howard · 2 Feb 2002, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mvpittman
I'd love to have ACAP set up, but I guess an address book synchronization script for each client is okay too. Would support of the standard be easier than just scripting a custom solution for each client?

The problem with ACAP (and LDAP, and IMSP...) is that it is poorly supported by email clients. Perhaps, however, one of the sync engines could be an "ACAP engine"... I haven't looked into it enough yet to know whether this could work.

mvpittman · 2 Feb 2002, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Howard
Marland, Neerav actually forwarded me an email recently from Eudora's tech support in which they said that they do not have a workaround for the problem and do not plan to fix it. I forwarded him a reference to the relevent RFC that describes the behaviour that they are incorrectly implementing, and never heard back.

I can't believe they aren't even going to fix it... Oh well... what to do, what to do?

-- Marland

Jeremy Howard · 2 Feb 2002, 03:56 PM

Try Mulberry? Everyone I know who's tried it has loved it. http://www.cyrusoft.com .

mvpittman · 2 Feb 2002, 07:45 PM

I did give it a 3-minute try earlier this week. It seemed like a great client, but I honestly didn't like it. I got the "double" subfolder thing again, and I didn't even want to try to fix it.

I realize that it would take me a good while to really learn to use it, but I think I really just wanted Eudora to work.

I'm going to try it again, just because Eudora isn't even going to address their funky IMAP implementation....

-- Maland

mvpittman · 2 Feb 2002, 07:59 PM

Well, I seem to have gotten Mulberry somewhat working correctly with FastMail... I'll add all of my other accounts and see how things go.

-- Marland

Jeremy Howard · 2 Feb 2002, 08:17 PM

Be sure to let us know how you go. Beware that it's nearly unusable without actually reading the docs. But the docs are good and shouldn't take too long to zip through.

**gpdoyon** · 2 Feb 2002, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mvpittman
Well, I seem to have gotten Mulberry somewhat working correctly with FastMail... I'll add all of my other accounts and see how things go.
-- Marland

Hi Marland, I a now a registered user of Mulberry myself now. The multiple windows really ticked me off when I first started using it. I was used to the "nice" three-pane window with message preview every time I clicked on a new message that I received. IMAP takes a little getting used to.

But, I printed out the docs, which were pretty good, and stuck with it a day or two. Now I *love* it. The developers say that they are coming out with a "traditional three-pane" option in the version 3.0 release. Most users seem to prefer the MDI*multi-document-interface) layout anyway and consider us Newbies a bunch of whiners. :-) I am of course paraphrasing here.

Enjoy!

- Gerry

mvpittman · 5 Feb 2002, 03:22 AM

I'm still clinging to Eudora, but I have signed up for a few extra free IMAP and POP accounts and I actually left Mulberry installed.

I definitely need to read the Documentation... I got a few accounts setup, but I don't know what many of the options are.

Perhaps I have some misguided idea that Qualcomm is actually going to fix the problem that they have, and then everything will be just like it was before FastMail brought some extra light into my e-mail life. Then again, perhaps I'm sore because I bought Eudora Pro just before they went to the Free/Sponsored/Paid scheme in version 4.3.

I truly love IMAP, and I've used quite a few clients... I do like the three pane preview, but I'm really used to Eudora.

Jeremy, do you have that message floating around that you forwarded on to Neerav and didn't hear back positively about? I'd love to know exactly what it is that wrong with the client... you can message me privately.

I check back in a few days and see if I got weened off of Eudora yet.

Jeremy Howard · 5 Feb 2002, 03:49 AM

Here's the original message. As you'll see the explanation from Qualcomm shows a remarkable lack of understanding of the IMAP standard. Comments like "Eudora displays the list of mailboxes as it's received from the server" are more than misleading, IMO. Unfortunately my reply didn't actually include the most important reference, which is RFC 2060 (the full IMAP RFC) which says "the case-insensitive mailbox name INBOX is a special name reserved to mean "the primary mailbox for this user on this server". Qualcomms suggestion that we should return a folder "INBOX.Inbox" shown below clearly violates this RFC. Anyway, here it is, my reply first, Qualcomm's explanation second.

Code:

The information presented below is incorrect. The Cyrus server does not
"store mailboxes within the inbox folder". It uses the "INBOX." namespace to
show the location of the personal folder store. IMAP namespaces are defined
in RFC 2342:
  http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2342.html

Eudora is currently not compliant with this RFC. It is not up to the authors
of Cyrus (or any other mail server that incorporates this behaviour, such as
Courier IMAP) to change its behaviour to be non-compliant with this RFC
(placing an "INBOX" inside the "INBOX." namespace would not be compliant).
It is up to Eudora to follow internet standards.

This behaviour is already correctly implemented in Netscape Mail 6.21 and MS
Outlook Express 5.0 (and later), as well as many other IMAP clients.
Comments like "The Cyrus server may include a switch to store mailboxes in a
more standard way" show a lack of understanding of internet standards, given
that the Cyrus IMAP server already stores its mailboxes in a standard way,
and Eudora fails to follow this standard.

> >Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 09:21:38 -0800
> >Subject: Re: IMAP folders in the In mailbox
> >
> >This is a valid and not uncommon IMAP mailbox hierarchy.  Some IMAP
> >servers store all mailboxes within the Inbox folder.  In your case,
> >your server is set up this way.  The Drafts mailbox, for example, is
> >actually stored within the Inbox on your server.  Eudora displays
> >the list of mailboxes as it's received from the server, and the
> >resulting menus you're seeing are indeed the intended behavior.
> >
> >I can imagine two possible workarounds, but both involve convincing
> >your server admin to make a change.:
> >
> >The Cyrus server may include a switch to store mailboxes in a more
> >standard way - outside of the inbox.
> >
> >The server may also provide a means for providing a link to the
> >Inbox mailbox within the Inbox mailbox itself.  If your mailbox list
> >looked like:
> >
> >->some-email.com
> > -> New...
> > -> Inbox
> > -> New...
> > -> This mailbox
> > -> Inbox
> > -> Drafts
> > -> Sent Mail
> > -> Trash
> > -> Junk
> > -> Done
> >
> >Then a Mailbox Location Prefix of "Inbox." would cause Eudora to
> >display the mailbox menus in a more standard fashion:
> >
> >->some-email.com
> > -> New...
> > -> Inbox
> > -> Drafts
> > -> Sent Mail
> > -> Trash
> > -> Junk
> > -> Done
> >
> >Sorry I can't be of more help!

2 Feb 2002, 03:37 AM	#20
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	Eudora and ACAP Hello, I've been a Eudora and IMAP user for a long time. Recently I quit using Eudora because I had problems with subfolders. In short, I'd like to go back to Eudora, and I'm going to try to dedicate myself to helping out and finding a solution. I'd love to have ACAP set up, but I guess an address book synchronization script for each client is okay too. Would support of the standard be easier than just scripting a custom solution for each client? I had a few computer science classes, but I'm a technical writer in "real life". I can't do much OO programming or Perl scripting. Anyway, as far as I can tell, somebody is using Eudora and it's working out for them. So I imagine that I can get it to work too... I got the sub-folder problem to go away in Netscape 6.21 by changing the folder delimiter for inbox as described in these threads: http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...ghlight=eudora http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...ghlight=eudora Perhaps Eudora's problem (or rather, my problem) can be solved by finding the file or setting that identifies the delimiter on folders... If I get things right with Eudora, I'll be glad to help out with the testing bit on any address book syncs and such. -- Marland Last edited by mvpittman : 2 Feb 2002 at 04:03 AM.

2 Feb 2002, 07:45 PM	#25
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	Mulberry I did give it a 3-minute try earlier this week. It seemed like a great client, but I honestly didn't like it. I got the "double" subfolder thing again, and I didn't even want to try to fix it. I realize that it would take me a good while to really learn to use it, but I think I really just wanted Eudora to work. I'm going to try it again, just because Eudora isn't even going to address their funky IMAP implementation.... -- Maland

2 Feb 2002, 07:59 PM	#26
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	Mulberry is good Well, I seem to have gotten Mulberry somewhat working correctly with FastMail... I'll add all of my other accounts and see how things go. -- Marland

5 Feb 2002, 03:22 AM	#29
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	still clinging to Eudora I'm still clinging to Eudora, but I have signed up for a few extra free IMAP and POP accounts and I actually left Mulberry installed. I definitely need to read the Documentation... I got a few accounts setup, but I don't know what many of the options are. Perhaps I have some misguided idea that Qualcomm is actually going to fix the problem that they have, and then everything will be just like it was before FastMail brought some extra light into my e-mail life. Then again, perhaps I'm sore because I bought Eudora Pro just before they went to the Free/Sponsored/Paid scheme in version 4.3. I truly love IMAP, and I've used quite a few clients... I do like the three pane preview, but I'm really used to Eudora. Jeremy, do you have that message floating around that you forwarded on to Neerav and didn't hear back positively about? I'd love to know exactly what it is that wrong with the client... you can message me privately. I check back in a few days and see if I got weened off of Eudora yet.

29 Dec 2001, 07:35 PM	#16
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	If it doesn't have last modified, it means that replication will be a bit less capable--if we don't know when an entry was modified, then we don't know if it was changed since last time we synced. So backends that don't have last modified date will only sync deletions and addtions, not edits. OO Perl is available from Amazon.com if it's not available in your corner of the world otherwise. It's particularly poorly distributed by the publisher, so I wouldn't be surprised if you can't find it in your local bookstore.

30 Dec 2001, 01:40 AM	#17
neerav Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 35	Good gnus, I mean news. (that was a Larsonian slip). The only difference in Mac and Win address books is the line feed/CR/newline thing. And different file names, of course. Check your email. It's all there. Eudora (for Mac) has a nice little conduit for syncing with PDA's, so I'm sure the last modified info is located somewhere. I've found some exciting prospective data, but it's garbled no matter what I use. Still looking, but this one's not as easy. --Neerav

30 Dec 2001, 07:26 AM	#18
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Possibly you'd be better of looking on the Eudora web-site for information about their API (application programming interface). This would let you directly work with their address book using the same DLL functions that Eudora itself does, rather than having to reverse engineer their file format. This is how I accessed the Outlook Express address book, for instance. PS: Isn't that more of a Stallmanian slip? (http://www.gnu.org).

30 Dec 2001, 05:05 PM	#19
neerav Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 35	I HAVE been intensely searching their site. Eudora isn't exactly known for it's service/support of their email clients. EIMS (their mail server) gets much better support. With eudora it's better to tinker yourself or get help on a user group. I'm doing both right now. --Neerav P.S. "While visions of gnus were dancing in my head." I had been thinking of Gary Larson's cartoon where there is a news stand guy telling a customer, "I've got good gnus, and I've got bad news". Behind him are three anti-social looking "bad" gnus, and three pristine looking "good" gnus. heheheheh I'm a Larson fan all the way! ...much before I had known of GNU.

2 Feb 2002, 05:24 AM	#21
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Marland, Neerav actually forwarded me an email recently from Eudora's tech support in which they said that they do not have a workaround for the problem and do not plan to fix it. I forwarded him a reference to the relevent RFC that describes the behaviour that they are incorrectly implementing, and never heard back.

2 Feb 2002, 03:56 PM	#24
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Try Mulberry? Everyone I know who's tried it has loved it. http://www.cyrusoft.com .

2 Feb 2002, 08:17 PM	#27
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Be sure to let us know how you go. Beware that it's nearly unusable without actually reading the docs. But the docs are good and shouldn't take too long to zip through.