Why I Don't Use Gmail

[boyd]

I have an "account" at gmail, but I am disgusted by the sleazy entreaties by these nouveau billionaires for users not to "delete".

"Now [because we give you so much storage]you never have to delete another email!!!" Wouldn't they just love that. A world of non-deleters.

The delete button is somewhat buried in their g-menu. Even the phrase in the menu, "Delete Forever" seems wistful, as if one is pleading with a leaving lover: "Are you sure? You don't really mean ... forever ..."

This begging of you by them, as you know, is done because they would like to retain a large repository of "relevant" data about you (and your contacts) from which to farm "tasteful" textual ads aimed right at you, you little consumer, you.

When I do a search on Google and get ads on the side of the legitimate "hits", I never click. I copy the www.xyz, and go direct, and steal the g- pennies from the g-coffers.

No thanks, gmail. I prefer to pay for a little privacy. Delete gmail, forever.

[kaptitsky]

Yup.

Gmail works the way Gmail works. That simple.

And for some people, it's great. People here have already had reports that Gmail has saved their bacon. There may be other ways not to burn your bacon, or to save it, but in this case, Gmail made it simple and easy.

The client is full of nuanced features, but they all do key off different metaphors -- archive, not delete, labels not folders. Hate those metaphors? You'll hate Gmail. I tried them, and well, I like them.

And you are right. To trust Gmail is to trust Google. Can't trust the company you are in relationship with? Fine, but you do have to trust somebody, and Google seems OK to me.

Someone's gotta pay the piper. You get to choose how. Gmail, only showing me text ads I will probably have some interest in, well, that's not a problem for me. If I could pay fees for a service as cool as Gmail, I'd consider it, but there's nothing out there like it.

Pay for your privacy. Your choice.

But do we really need to get your scorn for free?

[rmns2bseen]

I don't have that much of a problem with privacy/Gmail...and I pay for an account with another provider as well. The privacy issue is old and somewhat shopworn. Everyone's free not to use Gmail I think it's possible to be too paranoid...might as well stay off the Internet entirely, eh?

[JeffK]

I think gmail's access to the delete function has improved. Now AFAICT you only need two mouse clicks to delete all the mails visible on screen, one to select them all and another to press the Delete Forever button.

Jeff

[ReuvenNY]

I have several account with Gmail and I am thrilled by the product those entrepreneurs came up with.

I love my 2 and a quarter Gigabytes of storage room, so I do not have to resort to the “Delete” button that often. Not only that - every time I need to find any info in my Fastmail account and have difficult time finding it, I go to my Gmail account where duplicate email are stored and find it in a second.
I also love the way the program is communicating with the users, pleasantly asking me if I am sure I want to delete forever. God knows how many times I rushed and in a haste deleted important mail.

I also find that the non-obtrusive ads are very helpful in directing me to further links I can use. I always click on them, as I think Google should be rewarded for providing me that service for free.

Thanks Gmail for doing all that, as well as introducing the 1000 MB accounts to the email world. Viva Gmail for ever!!!

PS - There is no one truth. Every person can view same scenario through a different lens.

[xmailer]

Any concerns I might have about trusting google with my data are eclipsed by my lack of trust in the reliability of the service itself, having failed to receive some fairly important messages there. I should have known better than to trust a service still in beta for important emails, but it came about in a sort of roundabout way. But having made that mistake once, I won't be using it for any critical messages in the future at least until I'm convinced it's more ready to come out of beta status. While I've enjoyed occasionally playing arouind with the unique interface and features, for me it just hasn't yet proven sufficiently reliable to trust for the basic purpose of sending and receiving email.

[FITCHSF]

well, I can say that I love Gmail. Compared to other free services, the ad-free interface is wonderful!!! The only ads are those TEXT ads in the right hand side of the page, which are no bother to me at all. The privacy issue for me is not there, I mean, to me, it does not pose a threat. They may be reading all of our mail, and all of our personal business, but I doubt it.

In my time with Gmail (which is a long one) I have never lost any mail, or had delivery problems, I have always relied on it to make immediate delivery, and immediate reception, and it has always come through for me.

For me, Gmail is the essential email provider that I have been looking for. I have the option for POP3, but I don't need it, because the storage space is so large, and the interface is so fast, and beautiful. Thank Google.

[psalzer]

I like it. I like the ads on Google searches. When I use Opera, I like the ads on that, too. I've found good stuff that way. I've had no problems with delivery. The one or two times I thought I hadn't gotten a message was because it was in a conversation that was already ongoing and I failed to notice the new message. That's annoying, but now that I'm used to the conversations I miss them in other interfaces.

Privacy is not something I really think count on too much in relation to e-mail. The more private the better, but it's not really private unless you're running your own server and are an expert in security. And even then, it's only the messages on your end that are reasonably secure. No telling what might happen to anything you send out.

There are probably big limitations to Gmail, but life has gotten so busy in other areas I don't use e-mail quite the way I used to, and that might be why I like as much as I do. It simplifies things at a time when that's what I need. Want to act on something - just add a star. A simple yes or no type of thing. Sometimes you need something more complex, sometimes you need something simple.

[a_a]

stay with the topic...
"why you love gmail" should be another thread.

[Prognathous]

Here's why I don't use Gmail:

Originally posted by Prognathous
It is very unlikely that Gmail will improve so much to tempt me to switch. I'm willing to trade Fastmail's web-hosting/file-storage for Gmail's very convincing implementation of labels and all-documents search, but this is far from enough to satisfy my needs. At the very least, they need to implement the following to become real contenders:

1. No ads or content-tracking of any kind
2. IMAP support
3. Freely editable From-line
4. Subdomains, personalities, aliases
5. HTML composition that supports Mozilla and offers BiDi control
6. Proper support for tabbed browsers. More on the problem here

If they do, I wouldn't mind paying up to $40 a year for such a service, but IMHO, the chances are very, very slim.

Prog.

[Gankaku]

No matter how everyone feels (likes or dislikes) I think we all owe Gmail a big
THANK YOU!!!

They forced (well, indirectly) storage enhancements on all email providers' inboxes. :-)

[FITCHSF]

Originally posted by Prognathous
Here's why I don't use Gmail:

Gmail free, are there any paid services that offer ALL of those options that were just mentioned? are there any free services that offer ALL of those options? I don't know. Thats what I stick to Gmail, its just right for me.

[kaptitsky]

Originally posted by Prognathous
Here's why I don't use Gmail:
2. IMAP support
3. Freely editable From-line
4. Subdomains, personalities, aliases
5. HTML composition that supports Mozilla and offers BiDi control
6. Proper support for tabbed browsers. More on the problem here

You know, I'd like these things from Gmail too.

But many of them I understand.

2. How do you implement IMAP support without folders on the mail server? It's a new paradigm, sure, but that's a tradeoff I get.

3. Gmail lets you edit reply to, but not from. In this anti-spam authentication age, I understand that in order for Gmail to vouch that the from address is real, it can only be from them.

4. I don't get subdomains, but I do get plus addressing, which can serve many of the same purposes.

5. As far as I know, Gmail is one of the few web systems that supports rich compose for both IE and Mozilla based browsers.

6. And I would love tab support. One reason I hate Everyone.net is that you can't open multiple messages.

Even though I bet I could get that in the HTML only version of Gmail, I understand why they can't do it in the Javascript, which is more like an appilcation than a web page, and I don't have tabs in OE, though I can open a message in a new window, same as Gmail. That's why Gmail is fast and rich.

For me, the tradeoff -- down to how the spellcheck works -- is OK.



I didn't like Gmail until I really started using it. Unless I was willing to do things the Gmail way, it's not worth the effort. But once I did that, I found rewards.

I agree with you that the chances of finding a top end paid client are difficult. One of the old debates here was if you would rather have a mail system with a commercial/open backend (Communigate, Imail, MDaemon, Merak, etc) run by a competent admin, or a hand built mail system run by the owners. I always voted for the former, because I knew no small company could keep up with developing a power system.

Now Google has shown up with it's mass & brains and illuminated that argument. The development effort that went into Gmail, new ideas and all, must be massive, and it is paying off.

But as you note, we each make our own choices, assign our own values and priorities.

[Prognathous]

Originally posted by FITCHSF
are there any free services that offer ALL of those options?

I don't really care if it's free or not. I have specific needs, and I'm willing to pay up to $40 a year for a product that answers them. Fastmail.fm does, Gmail currently doesn't.

Originally posted by kaptitsky
2. How do you implement IMAP support without folders on the mail server? It's a new paradigm, sure, but that's a tradeoff I get.

I actually like the concept of having both folders and labels (as in Thunderbird). The fact that Gmail doesn't have folders is a limitation that they should fix IMHO.

3. Gmail lets you edit reply to, but not from. In this anti-spam authentication age, I understand that in order for Gmail to vouch that the from address is real, it can only be from them.

Well, I'm using customized From addresses in Fastmail and it works very well. I don't see any problem with it. In fact, Fastmail has become so smart, that I usually don't have to change the From when replying to emails, it just changes it for me (using the X-delivered-to header of the original mail). In most cases, the domains I use are Fastmail owned, so no problem there either.

4. I don't get subdomains, but I do get plus addressing, which can serve many of the same purposes.

Plus addresses are better than nothing, but they are less compatible and more awkward than sub-domains. You see, this is exactly the kind of feature I'm willing to pay for. Unfortunately, Gmail doesn't seem to have an offering for customers who are willing to pay for extra functionality.

5. As far as I know, Gmail is one of the few web systems that supports rich compose for both IE and Mozilla based browsers.

It doesn't support BiDi (no directionality buttons). Guess which service does?

Even though I bet I could get that in the HTML only version of Gmail,

True, but then I lose other features, such as HTML composition. I don't see why I have to give up features for tabs support. Suffice to say - with other email services, I can have it all.

I understand why they can't do it in the Javascript, which is more like an appilcation than a web page, and I don't have tabs in OE

You do in Eudora and Lotus Notes. It can be done.

though I can open a message in a new window, same as Gmail. That's why Gmail is fast and rich.

Opening the message in a new window is not good enough. It just doesn't scale very well for my needs.

As for being fast and rich, there are other services which do support tabs and are just as fast and have plenty more features.

But as you note, we each make our own choices, assign our own values and priorities.

Sure thing, which is why I think the thread title is wisely phrased: "Why I Don't Use Gmail".

Prog.

[rmns2bseen]

Originally posted by a_a
stay with the topic...
"why you love gmail" should be another thread.

Not to speak for anyone, but that response was a rebuttal of the original poster's statement; and I think it's one thing to object to using Gmail on the grounds that there are technical features that are lacking, but quite another to slam it on the basis of privacy issues. [edit] personally I do like Gmail, though it might be a long long time before I would rely on it as my main mail provider. I've never lost any mail either, at least to my knowledge, but I have heard some horror stories. And in the event mail is lost, how responsive is Gmail support?