yahoo groups and fastmail.fm

fall2002 · 14 Dec 2001, 12:19 PM

I configured my yahoo groups (groups.yahoo.com) account to redirect all my mailing lists to my fastmail.fm account, so that I could read them at home from my POP client. This setup used to work, but since the 7th, I haven't received any mail, though hundreds of messages are being posted on the mailing list.

confused,
fall2002.

Jeremy Howard · 14 Dec 2001, 01:21 PM

First, the bad news. FastMail.FM does not accept YahooGroups lists that are used for distributing binaries (that is images, music, movies, and so forth). It's just too expensive. Binaries should be distributed by posting them on a web site, not through email, since that way a separate copy does not have to be stored on the Internet for every person that wants the file. We tried allowing these groups for a while, but it really hurt performance for the 99% of customers who did not require this feature.

Now the good news. We will be announcing new pricing options in the next few days (they're basically finalised now, just being signed off by everyone and we also need a lawyer to check everything) and these options will include the ability to retrieve binaries on email lists, as well as host files on your own personal web folder on FastMail.FM. I don't think we'll ever be able to allow these for free users, however, because it just uses too much resources.

arpit · 14 Dec 2001, 02:20 PM

If ever a mail is rejected for any reason (except probably known spammers), because of its source, like as in yahoo groups, or its attachments or anything, a notification should definitely be sent to the user that a mail was dropped, with the sender and subject details.

It's scary to know that mails are being dropped and I am not aware of it. I am subscribed to one extremely low volume yahoogroups mailing list (that just sends out critical mails - text only ones too) and I shifted my subscription to my fastmail account a month back. I didnt consider it too strange that there were no mails on the list in the past few weeks. Now I am aghast to learn that mails were probably sent but I didnt get them.

Jeremy Howard · 14 Dec 2001, 03:02 PM

Arpit, only high-volume binary groups are dropped. Other Yahoogroups are accepted.

Your idea of notifying of bounced emails is great. Good one!

Of course, the sender currently gets a bounce notification, and we'll keep doing this. The only tricky thing in your proposal is sorting out what reason each message is bounced for, so as to avoid replacing spam with notification that we blocked a spam--as you mention, that's not a good idea...

srivastava · 14 Dec 2001, 03:54 PM

It is a good idea to drop binaries from yahoogroups and accept text based postings to optimize the performance.

I have subscribed to pretty large number of yahoogroups and have been receiving postings without any problem since it is text only.

KS

**Shelded** · 15 Dec 2001, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Howard
The only tricky thing in your proposal is sorting out what reason each message is bounced for, so as to avoid replacing spam with notification that we blocked a spam--as you mention, that's not a good idea...

Hey, why not create a periodic digest of the bounced messages, user-defined? Say I get a Saturday morning message containing headers from all bounced messages that week? Then I could contact folks and tell them if I needed to.

fall2002 · 15 Dec 2001, 12:46 PM

Actually, I'm subscribed to only non-binary mailing lists. One of my yahoo groups, for example, is fall2002: Never seen a binary on it! How do you distinguish between binary and non-binary groups? You have a preset list of binary lists? Do set fall2002 to non-binary.

thanks,
fall2002.

Jeremy Howard · 15 Dec 2001, 02:05 PM

The system automatically identifies any group that has multiple binary postings in a time period, and marks it as a binary group. It also sends me a log of this behaviour. From time to time I look for quick rules which can replace the long list of specific groups.

I discovered that there were dozens of groups with 4 digits in a row in their group name being used for binaries, so I added a rule for this general case. Well, it turns out that wasn't a good idea! Sorry... I've added an exception to this rule for fall2002--let me know if it still doesn't get through. When we get this improved rejection reporting working, we'll be able to avoid this better.

fall2002 · 3 Jan 2002, 12:21 AM

I still don't get fall2002. Can you set it right?

Jeremy Howard · 3 Jan 2002, 06:43 AM

There's no messages in the logs showing anything bounced from your account. Perhaps you have to resubscribe. Send an email to webmasterATfastmailDOTfm if you're sure you're subscribed and you're sure that this list is getting messages.

OtaconTV · 3 Jan 2002, 08:52 AM

Have you ever thought of having a place in our accounts where we could see statistics on our account.

Stuff like what's the avarage e-mails we send per day totals space used/left

section saying what e-mails were bounced by the server, what they were, and why they were bounced.

The current size allowed for attachments

Stuff like that. Also somthing like the forum rules thing at the bottom left of the screen when you make a post. It tells you what you can and can't do. Understand what I mean?

Jeremy Howard · 3 Jan 2002, 02:32 PM

Yes, that's something we'll add shortly after we put paid accounts in place.

pobelly · 3 Jan 2002, 03:40 PM

yeah, i've been thinking about this, too... since people seem to be concerned about what might be being bounced, etc. invisibly to them, but on the other hand considering the absurdity of sending a notification email for every piece of rejected spam, a log of some sort would maybe be just the thing. possibly with an option to have it mailed to you as a daily/weekly/monthly digest or whatever... maybe even (and i'm most likely getting carried away here) a simple rule system for the logging itself, so you can have some control over the information presented to you... it could also track logins, etc...

or maybe this would get too resource intensive/difficult to put into effect?

zephyre · 6 Jan 2002, 10:39 AM

None of my Yahoo groups are affeted

Jeremy Howard · 6 Jan 2002, 05:22 PM

Then none of your accounts have gone over the size limit.

Most of the lists I've seen in our block reports seem to be for adult images. Also seems to be some for sharing artist's works-in-progress. It's not always obvious from the list name (which is all I see). If you don't use lists that are mainly used for distributing large files, then your lists won't be affected.

If you do need to distribute large files, using an FTP site or web site is an approach that is much less taxing on internet resources (it doesn't require a separate copy to be transmitted and stored for every potentially interested user).

However in some cases I know that people need to transfer files using mailing lists, and it's not my job to dictate what people should or shouldn't do--as long as people pay for the resources that they use there's no problem!

14 Dec 2001, 12:19 PM	#1
fall2002 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3	yahoo groups and fastmail.fm I configured my yahoo groups (groups.yahoo.com) account to redirect all my mailing lists to my fastmail.fm account, so that I could read them at home from my POP client. This setup used to work, but since the 7th, I haven't received any mail, though hundreds of messages are being posted on the mailing list. confused, fall2002.

15 Dec 2001, 12:46 PM	#7
fall2002 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3	Only binary lists blocked? Actually, I'm subscribed to only non-binary mailing lists. One of my yahoo groups, for example, is fall2002: Never seen a binary on it! How do you distinguish between binary and non-binary groups? You have a preset list of binary lists? Do set fall2002 to non-binary. thanks, fall2002.

3 Jan 2002, 12:21 AM	#9
fall2002 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3	didn't work I still don't get fall2002. Can you set it right?

14 Dec 2001, 01:21 PM	#2
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	First, the bad news. FastMail.FM does not accept YahooGroups lists that are used for distributing binaries (that is images, music, movies, and so forth). It's just too expensive. Binaries should be distributed by posting them on a web site, not through email, since that way a separate copy does not have to be stored on the Internet for every person that wants the file. We tried allowing these groups for a while, but it really hurt performance for the 99% of customers who did not require this feature. Now the good news. We will be announcing new pricing options in the next few days (they're basically finalised now, just being signed off by everyone and we also need a lawyer to check everything) and these options will include the ability to retrieve binaries on email lists, as well as host files on your own personal web folder on FastMail.FM. I don't think we'll ever be able to allow these for free users, however, because it just uses too much resources.

14 Dec 2001, 02:20 PM	#3
arpit Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: USA Posts: 211	If ever a mail is rejected for any reason (except probably known spammers), because of its source, like as in yahoo groups, or its attachments or anything, a notification should definitely be sent to the user that a mail was dropped, with the sender and subject details. It's scary to know that mails are being dropped and I am not aware of it. I am subscribed to one extremely low volume yahoogroups mailing list (that just sends out critical mails - text only ones too) and I shifted my subscription to my fastmail account a month back. I didnt consider it too strange that there were no mails on the list in the past few weeks. Now I am aghast to learn that mails were probably sent but I didnt get them.

14 Dec 2001, 03:02 PM	#4
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Arpit, only high-volume binary groups are dropped. Other Yahoogroups are accepted. Your idea of notifying of bounced emails is great. Good one! Of course, the sender currently gets a bounce notification, and we'll keep doing this. The only tricky thing in your proposal is sorting out what reason each message is bounced for, so as to avoid replacing spam with notification that we blocked a spam--as you mention, that's not a good idea...

14 Dec 2001, 03:54 PM	#5
srivastava Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 22	It is a good idea to drop binaries from yahoogroups and accept text based postings to optimize the performance. I have subscribed to pretty large number of yahoogroups and have been receiving postings without any problem since it is text only. KS

15 Dec 2001, 02:05 PM	#8
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	The system automatically identifies any group that has multiple binary postings in a time period, and marks it as a binary group. It also sends me a log of this behaviour. From time to time I look for quick rules which can replace the long list of specific groups. I discovered that there were dozens of groups with 4 digits in a row in their group name being used for binaries, so I added a rule for this general case. Well, it turns out that wasn't a good idea! Sorry... I've added an exception to this rule for fall2002--let me know if it still doesn't get through. When we get this improved rejection reporting working, we'll be able to avoid this better.

3 Jan 2002, 06:43 AM	#10
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	There's no messages in the logs showing anything bounced from your account. Perhaps you have to resubscribe. Send an email to webmasterATfastmailDOTfm if you're sure you're subscribed and you're sure that this list is getting messages.

3 Jan 2002, 08:52 AM	#11
OtaconTV Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 66	Have you ever thought of having a place in our accounts where we could see statistics on our account. Stuff like what's the avarage e-mails we send per day totals space used/left section saying what e-mails were bounced by the server, what they were, and why they were bounced. The current size allowed for attachments Stuff like that. Also somthing like the forum rules thing at the bottom left of the screen when you make a post. It tells you what you can and can't do. Understand what I mean?

3 Jan 2002, 02:32 PM	#12
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Yes, that's something we'll add shortly after we put paid accounts in place.

3 Jan 2002, 03:40 PM	#13
pobelly Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 586	yeah, i've been thinking about this, too... since people seem to be concerned about what might be being bounced, etc. invisibly to them, but on the other hand considering the absurdity of sending a notification email for every piece of rejected spam, a log of some sort would maybe be just the thing. possibly with an option to have it mailed to you as a daily/weekly/monthly digest or whatever... maybe even (and i'm most likely getting carried away here) a simple rule system for the logging itself, so you can have some control over the information presented to you... it could also track logins, etc... or maybe this would get too resource intensive/difficult to put into effect?

6 Jan 2002, 10:39 AM	#14
zephyre Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 8	None of my Yahoo groups are affeted

6 Jan 2002, 05:22 PM	#15
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Then none of your accounts have gone over the size limit. Most of the lists I've seen in our block reports seem to be for adult images. Also seems to be some for sharing artist's works-in-progress. It's not always obvious from the list name (which is all I see). If you don't use lists that are mainly used for distributing large files, then your lists won't be affected. If you do need to distribute large files, using an FTP site or web site is an approach that is much less taxing on internet resources (it doesn't require a separate copy to be transmitted and stored for every potentially interested user). However in some cases I know that people need to transfer files using mailing lists, and it's not my job to dictate what people should or shouldn't do--as long as people pay for the resources that they use there's no problem!