New mockups from Neil - Page 13

rabarberski · 30 Aug 2007, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snsh

Also, the best default fonts for the mockup would be "lightly hinted fonts" like Segoe, Cambria, Consolas, Constantia, etc.

...which are available on every computer??

snsh · 31 Aug 2007, 05:36 AM

the CSS "font set" allows you to specify fonts in order of preference, which will be satisfied by availability. so {font-family: Consolas, Monaco, Courier New, monospace; } should do-the-right-thing depending on whether you're using a Vista, Mac, or WinXP machine.

:

robmueller · 31 Aug 2007, 08:37 AM

I've asked Neil to make the screen a bit more "blue" in colour to make it closer to the old Professional Blue stylesheet, which is the default that most people still have.

The change is going to be a big enough "shock" as it is, so minimising the colour shock as well seems reasonable to me.

Rob

**Sherry** · 31 Aug 2007, 08:57 AM

Guess you can't please everyone. I loved the look of it getting away from the standard blue/green/yellow shades of the internet. I agree you're probably right about the shock value and I can always use stylesheets for the colors I want. Anyway, just wanted to let Neil know I liked it the way it is.

Sherry

**Shelded** · 31 Aug 2007, 10:38 AM

I pretty much can't believe you would make such a large technical change and keep the colors so close to the old version that the occasional Fastmail visitor is not quite sure if anything at all has changed. It is getting hard for me to remember my first few times logging on to Fastmail, but I assure you many people will not notice any difference in the features.

D'ya really think most users prefer the default style? I would expect they're just unaware how to change the style or that it is worth the effort (if they're even using the account via the web interface). I think this is the time to make it simpler for styles to be previewed (rather than going to Sanjay's style tester, which will be broke after the upgrade).

The signup page for the new users should ask if they use LCD, CRT, laptop, whatever, to take educated guess at an appropriate color scheme, and set the screen resolution too. I think the crowd appeal of Fastmail is negatively impacted by the dorky huge Professional Blue.

**Shelded** · 31 Aug 2007, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

I can always use stylesheets for the colors I want.

Not until someone writes new style sheets for the new format

**Sherry** · 31 Aug 2007, 10:49 AM

Oh darn, that's right. I'll have to fix around 30 of those darn things. Good gosh, I forgot about that!

By the way, thinking about what you said makes sense. Keeping the colors close to what they were may not show a lot of users that "things have changed". They'll notice some differences like goes on a lot anyway but a hole new complete UI change (and I think to most a change is most noticeable with color) will let them now they're looking at something brand new.

(many may complain but I think they'd do that no matter what color is chosen)

I'm hoping it stays as is.

Sherry

David · 31 Aug 2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

I'm hoping it stays as is.

Yes, I like to existing interface as well Sherry

**Sherry** · 31 Aug 2007, 11:40 AM

Rob, any chance Neil can save the .css file that gives it the color now before, if, (hope he doesn't) he changes it for those of us who like it. To me, on my monitor, it looks like dark brown and light brown. I really like just one main color with different shades to it. All of mine are like that so using his would be great until I can change mine. I think that will take me a loooong time as I don't know .css much at all and it took 3 months to make my first color changes. This new way may be a lot more complicated than the old one...

Sherry

**Shelded** · 31 Aug 2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Yes, I like to existing interface as well Sherry

I'm not too far from that, myself. This change is not aimed at the power users. I am still afraid it will break things.

robmueller · 31 Aug 2007, 12:21 PM

I think most users just leave the default style because they don't know they can change it, or basically don't care.

I'm not sure about asking more questions at the signup stage. It seems each extra question you ask turns more people away. Think yourself about using other sites, if there's too many questions you'll give up, and that "too many" point is different for every person, which is why we try and minimise the questions we ask. I'd prefer to just get people signed up, and then maybe have a "customise" wizard or something to lead them through customisation options.

There was an article recently about how people intrinsically rate things they're familiar with as better than things their not familiar with (I can't find the link, can anyone else find it), and colour definitely creates a familiarity with people. In Australia banks seem particular keen on this, so ANZ (http://www.anz.com/) have their blue, Commonwealth (http://www.commbank.com.au/) have their yellow/gold, Westpac (www.westpac.com.au) their red, etc. I just thought that the changes might be a dit disconcerting as they are, so at least keeping the colour familiar would be useful.

When people say "I like to existing interface" and "This change is not aimed at the power users. I am still afraid it will break things" please give more examples and details of what you mean. I'm keen to take these things into account when designing the new interface, but making blanket statements doesn't really help figure out how to make improvements to the mockups!

Rob

David · 31 Aug 2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

When people say "I like to existing interface" and "This change is not aimed at the power users. I am still afraid it will break things" please give more examples and details of what you mean.

The old interface is 'proven' and is known to be fast and functional. There is also the issue of 'wide open spaces' which I like, especially on the 'compose screen'.

At the end of the day, it might be that the new interface is just as fast and functional, but the thick borders (and lines) seem to indicate otherwise. I am a firm believer in the philosophy of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' nevertheless, I will give the new interface a fair trial, it might just work better than I expect

znunxnyv · 31 Aug 2007, 01:07 PM

The current interface, while it functions, can be confusing. For example, some buttons to save settings or rules are placed along the logout button, which is on top of the screen. This isn't just natural, but is also inconsistent with some other screens.

On another note, the new interface isn't jumping the web2 bandwagon, otherwise you'll see a lot of AJAX popups and you won't even be able to access it without turning javascript on. The biggest difference I see is it now correctly uses tables. The current one uses tables for layout. Tables should be used for presenting tabular data (like your email messages list), not layouting. In the old days, it wasn't possible to layout without tables since most browsers don't (fully) support styling by css. But now since most browsers do support css, it doesn't hurt to conform to current standards.

mvpittman · 31 Aug 2007, 01:10 PM

Looking good. I'll be glad to see a blog post about this too!

znunxnyv · 31 Aug 2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

Rob, any chance Neil can save the .css file that gives it the color now before, if, (hope he doesn't) he changes it for those of us who like it. To me, on my monitor, it looks like dark brown and light brown. I really like just one main color with different shades to it. All of mine are like that so using his would be great until I can change mine. I think that will take me a loooong time as I don't know .css much at all and it took 3 months to make my first color changes. This new way may be a lot more complicated than the old one...

Sherry

Sherry, if you use custom css, it should be safe inside your storage or hard drive. And actually it'll be easier to edit the colors in the new one since Neil separated the color settings. Here's the list of the style sheets used in the neew interface.

31 Aug 2007, 05:36 AM	#182
snsh Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 611	the CSS "font set" allows you to specify fonts in order of preference, which will be satisfied by availability. so {font-family: Consolas, Monaco, Courier New, monospace; } should do-the-right-thing depending on whether you're using a Vista, Mac, or WinXP machine. :

31 Aug 2007, 08:37 AM	#183
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	I've asked Neil to make the screen a bit more "blue" in colour to make it closer to the old Professional Blue stylesheet, which is the default that most people still have. The change is going to be a big enough "shock" as it is, so minimising the colour shock as well seems reasonable to me. Rob

31 Aug 2007, 08:57 AM	#184
Sherry Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8,687	Guess you can't please everyone. I loved the look of it getting away from the standard blue/green/yellow shades of the internet. I agree you're probably right about the shock value and I can always use stylesheets for the colors I want. Anyway, just wanted to let Neil know I liked it the way it is. Sherry

31 Aug 2007, 10:38 AM	#185
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,849	I pretty much can't believe you would make such a large technical change and keep the colors so close to the old version that the occasional Fastmail visitor is not quite sure if anything at all has changed. It is getting hard for me to remember my first few times logging on to Fastmail, but I assure you many people will not notice any difference in the features. D'ya really think most users prefer the default style? I would expect they're just unaware how to change the style or that it is worth the effort (if they're even using the account via the web interface). I think this is the time to make it simpler for styles to be previewed (rather than going to Sanjay's style tester, which will be broke after the upgrade). The signup page for the new users should ask if they use LCD, CRT, laptop, whatever, to take educated guess at an appropriate color scheme, and set the screen resolution too. I think the crowd appeal of Fastmail is negatively impacted by the dorky huge Professional Blue.

31 Aug 2007, 10:49 AM	#187
Sherry Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8,687	Oh darn, that's right. I'll have to fix around 30 of those darn things. Good gosh, I forgot about that! By the way, thinking about what you said makes sense. Keeping the colors close to what they were may not show a lot of users that "things have changed". They'll notice some differences like goes on a lot anyway but a hole new complete UI change (and I think to most a change is most noticeable with color) will let them now they're looking at something brand new. (many may complain but I think they'd do that no matter what color is chosen) I'm hoping it stays as is. Sherry

31 Aug 2007, 11:40 AM	#189
Sherry Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8,687	Rob, any chance Neil can save the .css file that gives it the color now before, if, (hope he doesn't) he changes it for those of us who like it. To me, on my monitor, it looks like dark brown and light brown. I really like just one main color with different shades to it. All of mine are like that so using his would be great until I can change mine. I think that will take me a loooong time as I don't know .css much at all and it took 3 months to make my first color changes. This new way may be a lot more complicated than the old one... Sherry

31 Aug 2007, 12:21 PM	#191
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	I think most users just leave the default style because they don't know they can change it, or basically don't care. I'm not sure about asking more questions at the signup stage. It seems each extra question you ask turns more people away. Think yourself about using other sites, if there's too many questions you'll give up, and that "too many" point is different for every person, which is why we try and minimise the questions we ask. I'd prefer to just get people signed up, and then maybe have a "customise" wizard or something to lead them through customisation options. There was an article recently about how people intrinsically rate things they're familiar with as better than things their not familiar with (I can't find the link, can anyone else find it), and colour definitely creates a familiarity with people. In Australia banks seem particular keen on this, so ANZ (http://www.anz.com/) have their blue, Commonwealth (http://www.commbank.com.au/) have their yellow/gold, Westpac (www.westpac.com.au) their red, etc. I just thought that the changes might be a dit disconcerting as they are, so at least keeping the colour familiar would be useful. When people say "I like to existing interface" and "This change is not aimed at the power users. I am still afraid it will break things" please give more examples and details of what you mean. I'm keen to take these things into account when designing the new interface, but making blanket statements doesn't really help figure out how to make improvements to the mockups! Rob

31 Aug 2007, 01:07 PM	#193
znunxnyv Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 138	The current interface, while it functions, can be confusing. For example, some buttons to save settings or rules are placed along the logout button, which is on top of the screen. This isn't just natural, but is also inconsistent with some other screens. On another note, the new interface isn't jumping the web2 bandwagon, otherwise you'll see a lot of AJAX popups and you won't even be able to access it without turning javascript on. The biggest difference I see is it now correctly uses tables. The current one uses tables for layout. Tables should be used for presenting tabular data (like your email messages list), not layouting. In the old days, it wasn't possible to layout without tables since most browsers don't (fully) support styling by css. But now since most browsers do support css, it doesn't hurt to conform to current standards.

31 Aug 2007, 01:10 PM	#194
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	Looking good. I'll be glad to see a blog post about this too!