Why is EMD tracking us - Page 2

communicant · 20 Nov 2013, 02:27 AM

I find it puzzling that Edwin has yet to be heard from. This is an important issue for the forum (not that we get to vote, of course!)

At the risk of incurring Fred's sarcasm and/or condescension (and I second Jacinto's comments thereon), it is most certainly the case that one need not be an oversensitive shrinking violet to find the sudden intrusion of Google Analytics into a previously 'pure' site unsettling and ease-killing.

This was one of the few places one could go and not feel that anyone was looking over one's shoulder. Now that has suddenly changed.

Yes indeed, that makes me feel 'unsettled' and ill at ease, and I make no apologies about it.

janusz · 20 Nov 2013, 02:35 AM

Google Analytics informs the owner about how many folks visited the site, where (geographically speaking) they came from, how much time they spent on the site and this kind of things.
Any site owner in his/her right mind would want to know that. And this information can be derived (at the expense of some effort) from website logs.
So what this fuss is all about? BTW, if you use Adblock Plus (a FF+Chrome ad-on) you can block the GA stuff and feel settled again.

beeboy · 20 Nov 2013, 04:26 AM

I wouldn't get too excited about the tracking. I often find six or eight trackers in other places.

Ghostery is another good tool.

communicant · 20 Nov 2013, 05:45 AM

Sorry, but that misses the point. The fact that other sites mine information and track visitors, and the fact that one can use various tools and plugins and workarounds to try to avoid (some of) it is quite irrelevant to the fact that EMD didn't do that before, and now it does. *That* is the point. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops to avoid becoming a commercial commodity, not here. What happens elsewhere is not the point.

beeboy · 20 Nov 2013, 10:41 AM

I get the "point".

The point I'm making is, its not worthwhile to get on "high horses" over it.

So, what if Emd makes a few bucks from ads/trackers? I say more power to it.

But this is just my opinion. We are allowed opinions, right?

communicant · 20 Nov 2013, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeboy

I get the "point".

The point I'm making is, its not worthwhile to get on "high horses" over it.

So, what if Emd makes a few bucks from ads/trackers? I say more power to it.

But this is just my opinion. We are allowed opinions, right?

Why the needless sarcasm and hostility? You are welcome to disagree with the substance of other people's posts, but you seem to have an unpleasant chip of some sort on your shoulder. Nobody in this thread or anywhere else has insulted you or given you cause for this petulance, so cut it out. You have also misunderstood what I said, but let it pass. This has become an unpleasant exercise. And the forum has become an unpleasant place to visit. Ads, tracking, and deteriorating behavior -- it really makes a person want to log in. Wonderful.

drew · 21 Nov 2013, 03:51 AM

I wish I had that Bookmark saved
so this is from very unreliable memory.

Most likely BBC world /Tech they told us about
private firms that acted like human "bots"
they "mined" everything they could about a person
and sold the info to those that wanted such info.

The author of the text estimated there where some 70
such firms working daily to collect such info.

Sure "bots" can do much of that work too
but the human bots are better at trying to guess
what kind of personality those they track have.

A kind of total surveillance?

So these Adsence and the other one
do much of that job too but less intelligent?

It is off topic here but if you remember more details
please send me a PM with that info and links to relevant text.

Bamb0 · 22 Nov 2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by communicant

I find it puzzling that Edwin has yet to be heard from.

Almost every site I am on uses google to collect data...... (Its easy enough to block it if you dont like it)

FredOnline · 23 Nov 2013, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeboy

Ghostery is another good tool.

I installed this tool in Chrome - purely out of interest - to see what tracking takes place on the websites I regularly visit.

The EMD forum website only shows up Google Analytics.

On my personal website it shows Google Analytics and Statcounter.

TBH, I had forgotten that I had GA in place - I haven't taken the time to really understand all that it "analyses", but the information is there if I ever need it.

Statcounter is easier for me to understand.

I have not blocked Google Analytics on the EMD forum website, as I consider if that it helps Edwin to manage his forum, I have absolutely no problem with that.

emebrs · 28 Oct 2015, 04:01 AM

This forum should not use Google Analytics at all. It is a breach of trust.

popowich · 28 Oct 2015, 04:03 AM

Google has a plugin that lets you opt-out of Google Analytics - https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout

janusz · 28 Oct 2015, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emebrs

It is a breach of trust.

Please explain.

chrisretusn · 28 Oct 2015, 08:23 AM

A while back it was discussed that EMD would start using ads as a way so help out with maintaining the board. I also recall that ads would only affect visitors or members not logged in. With ads comes tracking.

If your not logging in you will see ads. One ad from what I can see. If you are logged in, ads go away.

Before logging in I can see the following domains in my blocker (uBlock Origin):

emaildiscussions.com
google-analytics.com
googlesyndication.com
googletagservices.com
shareasale.com

After logging in:

emaildiscussions.com
google-analytics.com

All with the exception of emaildiscussions.com are blocked.

Why is google-analytics.com still around after logging in? Well because it's a service that gives EMD analytics on site usage, not just ad performance. So I have no problem with this. I don't specifically see it as tracking.

I have no problems with this. I don't click ads anyway and the one ad visible before logging is not all that intrusive and are always something related to the forum. The last ad I noted was something about "Hosted Exchange Email" served up by shareasale.com. In fact I rarely see any other ad. Any tracking that is being done and stored is lost after I exit my browser any way. I rarely leave my browser open, always shut it down when finished.

I am actually thinking of white listing EMD since that ads do go away after logging in.

libCognition · 29 Oct 2015, 01:43 AM

Usenet is better than walled-garden forums (web and mailing lists). I say that in principle, neglecting the fact that many newsgroups are ghost towns. Mechanically, usenet is superior because you can post anonymously and generally free from censorship. In particular, you can discuss politics in usenet (iow, the politics of mail services and the jurisdictions they operate in).

So, I recommend monitoring these usenet newsgroups:

* comp.mail.misc (general discussion, relatively more active than the others)
* alt.comp.mail.misc (general discussion, almost as active as c.m.m)
* alt.privacy.anon-server (niche topic [anonymity], but highly active)
* alt.comp.apps.email
* alt.free.mailservers
* free.email
* alt.anonymous.email (mostly trash, but very low volume)

aioe.org is a free public NNTP server that can be used to access them (no account needed, and tor works). To post, you don't need a subscription, and no need to login to anything.

I suggest posting to usenet first. Then resort to EMD and other walled-gardens if you really need more exposure.

janusz · 29 Oct 2015, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by libCognition

usenet is superior because you can post anonymously and generally free from censorship.

So what's the difference between EMD and usenet?

29 Oct 2015, 01:43 AM	#29
libCognition Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 76	Usenet is better than walled-garden forums (web and mailing lists). I say that in principle, neglecting the fact that many newsgroups are ghost towns. Mechanically, usenet is superior because you can post anonymously and generally free from censorship. In particular, you can discuss politics in usenet (iow, the politics of mail services and the jurisdictions they operate in). So, I recommend monitoring these usenet newsgroups: * comp.mail.misc (general discussion, relatively more active than the others) * alt.comp.mail.misc (general discussion, almost as active as c.m.m) * alt.privacy.anon-server (niche topic [anonymity], but highly active) * alt.comp.apps.email * alt.free.mailservers * free.email * alt.anonymous.email (mostly trash, but very low volume) aioe.org is a free public NNTP server that can be used to access them (no account needed, and tor works). To post, you don't need a subscription, and no need to login to anything. I suggest posting to usenet first. Then resort to EMD and other walled-gardens if you really need more exposure. Last edited by libCognition : 29 Oct 2015 at 01:51 AM.

20 Nov 2013, 02:27 AM	#16
communicant Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 879	I find it puzzling that Edwin has yet to be heard from. This is an important issue for the forum (not that we get to vote, of course!) At the risk of incurring Fred's sarcasm and/or condescension (and I second Jacinto's comments thereon), it is most certainly the case that one need not be an oversensitive shrinking violet to find the sudden intrusion of Google Analytics into a previously 'pure' site unsettling and ease-killing. This was one of the few places one could go and not feel that anyone was looking over one's shoulder. Now that has suddenly changed. Yes indeed, that makes me feel 'unsettled' and ill at ease, and I make no apologies about it.

20 Nov 2013, 02:35 AM	#17
janusz The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: EU Posts: 4,944	Google Analytics informs the owner about how many folks visited the site, where (geographically speaking) they came from, how much time they spent on the site and this kind of things. Any site owner in his/her right mind would want to know that. And this information can be derived (at the expense of some effort) from website logs. So what this fuss is all about? BTW, if you use Adblock Plus (a FF+Chrome ad-on) you can block the GA stuff and feel settled again.

20 Nov 2013, 04:26 AM	#18
beeboy Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 551	I wouldn't get too excited about the tracking. I often find six or eight trackers in other places. Ghostery is another good tool.

20 Nov 2013, 05:45 AM	#19
communicant Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 879	Sorry, but that misses the point. The fact that other sites mine information and track visitors, and the fact that one can use various tools and plugins and workarounds to try to avoid (some of) it is quite irrelevant to the fact that EMD didn't do that before, and now it does. That is the point. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops to avoid becoming a commercial commodity, not here. What happens elsewhere is not the point.

20 Nov 2013, 10:41 AM	#20
beeboy Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 551	I get the "point". The point I'm making is, its not worthwhile to get on "high horses" over it. So, what if Emd makes a few bucks from ads/trackers? I say more power to it. But this is just my opinion. We are allowed opinions, right?

21 Nov 2013, 03:51 AM	#22
drew The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,626	I wish I had that Bookmark saved so this is from very unreliable memory. Most likely BBC world /Tech they told us about private firms that acted like human "bots" they "mined" everything they could about a person and sold the info to those that wanted such info. The author of the text estimated there where some 70 such firms working daily to collect such info. Sure "bots" can do much of that work too but the human bots are better at trying to guess what kind of personality those they track have. A kind of total surveillance? So these Adsence and the other one do much of that job too but less intelligent? It is off topic here but if you remember more details please send me a PM with that info and links to relevant text.

28 Oct 2015, 04:01 AM	#25
emebrs Essential Contributor Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 343	This forum should not use Google Analytics at all. It is a breach of trust.

28 Oct 2015, 04:03 AM	#26
popowich Essential Contributor Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 263 Representative of: EmailQuestions.com	Google has a plugin that lets you opt-out of Google Analytics - https://tools.google.com/dlpage/gaoptout

28 Oct 2015, 08:23 AM	#28
chrisretusn Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philippines Posts: 843	A while back it was discussed that EMD would start using ads as a way so help out with maintaining the board. I also recall that ads would only affect visitors or members not logged in. With ads comes tracking. If your not logging in you will see ads. One ad from what I can see. If you are logged in, ads go away. Before logging in I can see the following domains in my blocker (uBlock Origin): emaildiscussions.com google-analytics.com googlesyndication.com googletagservices.com shareasale.com After logging in: emaildiscussions.com google-analytics.com All with the exception of emaildiscussions.com are blocked. Why is google-analytics.com still around after logging in? Well because it's a service that gives EMD analytics on site usage, not just ad performance. So I have no problem with this. I don't specifically see it as tracking. I have no problems with this. I don't click ads anyway and the one ad visible before logging is not all that intrusive and are always something related to the forum. The last ad I noted was something about "Hosted Exchange Email" served up by shareasale.com. In fact I rarely see any other ad. Any tracking that is being done and stored is lost after I exit my browser any way. I rarely leave my browser open, always shut it down when finished. I am actually thinking of white listing EMD since that ads do go away after logging in.