possible LDAP server from fastmail? - Page 3

Jeremy Howard · 10 Jun 2002, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dutch
are there any IMAP providers, with equal quality, that fully support IMAP (including the address synchronization)?.

FastMail.FM fully supports IMAP. Address synchronization is not part of IMAP.

Jeremy Howard · 10 Jun 2002, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by matt_heinrichs
And correct me if I'm wrong, since I haven't done a search for such a tool yet, but wouldn't there be existings tools/code that could be leveraged to synchronize address books with an LDAP source?

I haven't found any yet. If there was such a thing, I think it would be quite a compelling reason to use LDAP.

Since there are no major email clients that let you view/edit your own address book with LDAP, there is currently no reason to support it. IMSP/ACAP is supported by one email client that is used by <0.1% of our user base (according to our logs), so adding this protocol would benefit very few users. In addition, there are very few servers supporting these protocols and they have very limited ability to integrate with other systems (like, for instance, the FastMail.FM address book).

I completely agree with everyone who says that being able to share your address book is very important. Unfortunately, the only method for sharing address books with an off-line email client that I've seen so far is the Windows Address Book sharing with Hotmail (using the HTTPMail protocol). However, this is proprietary and not extensible. At this stage, creating a new address book synchronization tool is still the only method I have seen that will be usable now by most people to allow them to share their address book between their email client and the FastMail.FM server.

mvpittman · 10 Jun 2002, 11:16 AM

Jeremy,

I think most of us understand that getting address book synchronization needs to be something that works for "lots of people"...

I guess there's a minority that want it "yesterday" and we are just trying to figure out if there's a way to make it work right now with what we've got.

We know it's on the list of coming features... we just don't know when or where in the priority list.

I guess you can see where the priority lies with us few who keep asking about it.

- Marland

sjk · 10 Jun 2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Howard
Since there are no major email clients that let you view/edit your own address book with LDAP, there is currently no reason to support it.

I'm

because I thought emsilva's May 2nd "Clients that support IMAP and LDAP..." posting was such a list. Guess I'll re-read some messages to see how people are differentiating different LDAP capabilities.

Jeremy Howard · 10 Jun 2002, 12:30 PM

Thanks Marland--I understand, I want it too! As I replied to Matt_heinrichs, if there is a tool for syncing client address books with LDAP, then a quick solution can be found. I haven't found such a tool yet unfortunately.

Otherwise, if we have to create the whole new tool, it's going to be a few more months unless someone volunteers to help. I've got a good prototype finished and working, but it needs to be tested and ported to a language that allows easier installation. Also, client plugins need to be written for popular email clients. Rob and I have about a month of work on backend support/robustness/scalability stuff to do before we'll be able to spend much time on this...

sjk · 10 Jun 2002, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mvpittman
I think most of us understand that getting address book synchronization needs to be something that works for "lots of people"...

Spot on. And I'm not aware of any other heterogeneous protocol/solution besides LDAP that would make it possible.

As I understand it, Apple intends to make LDAP and vCard the foundation of its address book in the upcoming Jaguar release.

Does anyone have experience with clients that access LDAP servers like Bigboot, Four11, etc? Seems FastMail doesn't need to run its own LDAP servers, just make its webmail client work with one.

Sounds like you've got a solution in the works, Jeremy, tho' it doesn't appear to be utilizing LDAP in any way. Still figuring out why you're not going with an open standard as with other FastMail components. And it's not that I don't trust your judgement, skills, etc.

Excuse my ignorance and set me straight if I'm off target here.

[... edited after reading JH's last post ...]

Jeremy Howard · 10 Jun 2002, 12:53 PM

Bigfoot, Four11, etc don't provide what is required. We need authenticated LDAP, so that you only see *your* address book! (Otherwise you'd see everyone's address book all together!) And we need *write-access* otherwise you wouldn't be able to add addresses to your address book without going to the web client!

Because email clients don't support these LDAP features, LDAP is currently not a useful solution. Maybe one day it will be, but not yet...

sjk · 10 Jun 2002, 01:02 PM

Ahh, yes... authentication *is* a primary issue. Thanks for the reminder.

Btw, are you sure you don't have a super sophisticated bot generating simultaeneous replies for you? You're wicked fast!

Jeremy Howard · 10 Jun 2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sjk
Btw, are you sure you don't have a super sophisticated bot generating simultaeneous replies for you? You're wicked fast!

You assume too much, human... http://www.emaildiscussions.com/...&threadid=1274

mvpittman · 11 Jun 2002, 03:22 AM

What's up with the OpenLDAP stuff? is there a chance we could leverage any of that software/source/ideas?

I was browsing around http://www.emailman.com and came across some LDAP information... I thought I'd check to see if it was worth looking into, or if someone had already come dead-end against that.

- Marland

mvpittman · 11 Jun 2002, 03:32 AM

If FastMail can get an LDAP server running, then all we as users have to worry about is using it. We'd need a tool that can authenticate and write to the LDAP server.

Looking around, I think there might be some free or web-based clients that can authenticate and write. Maybe we could write or contribute to the work at http://www.openldap.org.

Then, those of us with clients that can authenticate and read (and also possibly write) could access the LDAP server to get our addresses.

Cyrus IMAP has some kind of LDAP server functionality, but I don't know much more than that - whether it's stable whether FastMail turned it on.

If the address book on FastMail can be integrated/synched up with/run on that LDAP server, would we be good to go?

Jeremy Howard · 11 Jun 2002, 07:19 AM

If we implemented LDAP it would be with OpenLDAP. Cyrus' LDAP support is as for user authentication, not for contacts storage.

The problem is not implementing LDAP on the server, the problem is that no major email client can use it!

ppetru · 11 Jun 2002, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Howard
And we need *write-access* otherwise you wouldn't be able to add addresses to your address book without going to the web client!

I don't know about the other people here, but I'd take read-only LDAP over no access any time

At least for the beginning, I'd be fine with just being able to read the addressbook and having to add new people through the web interface.

Petru

mvpittman · 11 Jun 2002, 10:24 AM

yeah, I'd like to have an LDAP server to store my addresses... however, we'd need authentication in the client to make sure we can only read our own address books.

How's that list of clients go that support authenticated reading of LDAP?

Eudora... still my favorite mail client... seems to support an LDAP server that you can log into...

So, if FastMail were to get a server going that had my address book infor on their end, which isn't a problem - I could use my Eudora Client to read it.

If I had to put my addresses into the web-interface using upload addresses, but could still read them from a client, that'd be great!

- Marland

Jeremy Howard · 11 Jun 2002, 10:59 AM

If an LDAP address sync tool doesn't exist, maybe we should simply write an LDAP plugin for the address sync tool that we are creating. Is anyone interested in getting involved in such a project?

Has anyone got experience of using Eudora's authenticated LDAP support? Does is use a standard addressing scheme? Do all authenticated LDAP clients (or proposed clients) use some standard schema for addresses?

11 Jun 2002, 03:22 AM	#40
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	OpenLDAP? What's up with the OpenLDAP stuff? is there a chance we could leverage any of that software/source/ideas? I was browsing around http://www.emailman.com and came across some LDAP information... I thought I'd check to see if it was worth looking into, or if someone had already come dead-end against that. - Marland

10 Jun 2002, 11:16 AM	#33
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	Jeremy, I think most of us understand that getting address book synchronization needs to be something that works for "lots of people"... I guess there's a minority that want it "yesterday" and we are just trying to figure out if there's a way to make it work right now with what we've got. We know it's on the list of coming features... we just don't know when or where in the priority list. I guess you can see where the priority lies with us few who keep asking about it. - Marland

10 Jun 2002, 12:30 PM	#35
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Thanks Marland--I understand, I want it too! As I replied to Matt_heinrichs, if there is a tool for syncing client address books with LDAP, then a quick solution can be found. I haven't found such a tool yet unfortunately. Otherwise, if we have to create the whole new tool, it's going to be a few more months unless someone volunteers to help. I've got a good prototype finished and working, but it needs to be tested and ported to a language that allows easier installation. Also, client plugins need to be written for popular email clients. Rob and I have about a month of work on backend support/robustness/scalability stuff to do before we'll be able to spend much time on this...

10 Jun 2002, 12:53 PM	#37
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Bigfoot, Four11, etc don't provide what is required. We need authenticated LDAP, so that you only see your address book! (Otherwise you'd see everyone's address book all together!) And we need write-access otherwise you wouldn't be able to add addresses to your address book without going to the web client! Because email clients don't support these LDAP features, LDAP is currently not a useful solution. Maybe one day it will be, but not yet...

10 Jun 2002, 01:02 PM	#38
sjk Master of the @ Join Date: May 2002 Location: Eugene Posts: 1,975	Ahh, yes... authentication is a primary issue. Thanks for the reminder. Btw, are you sure you don't have a super sophisticated bot generating simultaeneous replies for you? You're wicked fast!

11 Jun 2002, 03:32 AM	#41
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	If FastMail can get an LDAP server running, then all we as users have to worry about is using it. We'd need a tool that can authenticate and write to the LDAP server. Looking around, I think there might be some free or web-based clients that can authenticate and write. Maybe we could write or contribute to the work at http://www.openldap.org. Then, those of us with clients that can authenticate and read (and also possibly write) could access the LDAP server to get our addresses. Cyrus IMAP has some kind of LDAP server functionality, but I don't know much more than that - whether it's stable whether FastMail turned it on. If the address book on FastMail can be integrated/synched up with/run on that LDAP server, would we be good to go?

11 Jun 2002, 07:19 AM	#42
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	If we implemented LDAP it would be with OpenLDAP. Cyrus' LDAP support is as for user authentication, not for contacts storage. The problem is not implementing LDAP on the server, the problem is that no major email client can use it!

11 Jun 2002, 10:24 AM	#44
mvpittman Essential Contributor Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 428	yeah, I'd like to have an LDAP server to store my addresses... however, we'd need authentication in the client to make sure we can only read our own address books. How's that list of clients go that support authenticated reading of LDAP? Eudora... still my favorite mail client... seems to support an LDAP server that you can log into... So, if FastMail were to get a server going that had my address book infor on their end, which isn't a problem - I could use my Eudora Client to read it. If I had to put my addresses into the web-interface using upload addresses, but could still read them from a client, that'd be great! - Marland

11 Jun 2002, 10:59 AM	#45
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	If an LDAP address sync tool doesn't exist, maybe we should simply write an LDAP plugin for the address sync tool that we are creating. Is anyone interested in getting involved in such a project? Has anyone got experience of using Eudora's authenticated LDAP support? Does is use a standard addressing scheme? Do all authenticated LDAP clients (or proposed clients) use some standard schema for addresses?