Issue sending to @btinternet.com addresses

sprucemoose · 20 May 2015, 07:21 AM

For the last couple of weeks I've had "delayed mail" notifications when sending to @btinternet.com addresses. As they are a major UK ISP and I have no problems sending to there from a different account (eg hotmail) I'm wondering if there's something specific going on between Fastmail's servers and BT (or their email provider)?

A typical message is
delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO

Mails seem to eventually get through after many hours. If I can provide any other details to assist diagnosis, let me know.

robn · 20 May 2015, 09:06 AM

Interesting. It looks sort of like we're being rate limited to a degree, but there's also some minor connection problems, so its hard to be sure. A quick look over the traffic destined for that server suggests its all pretty much legitimate, and hasn't increased in volume recently, so I don't have any quick answers.

I've changed our outgoing IP address just in case its an IP-based block. I'm seeing some of the queued mail being delivered, but still some being deferred.

I'll keep an eye on it over the next couple of days and maybe try to contact their mail admins for more info.

gj15 · 20 May 2015, 11:29 PM

I think incoming mail might be affected too.

I’ve just received two messages from a btinternet account to my fastmail account.

The first timestamped Tue, 19 May 2015 21:57:42 +0100 by rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk then timestamped Wed, 20 May 2015 10:01:37 -0400 by mx5.messagingengine.com.

The second timestamped Tue, 19 May 2015 22:00:27 +0100 rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk then timestamped Wed, 20 May 2015 09:53:13 -0400 mx5.messagingengine.com.

The earlier sent one arriving later.

hatticus · 21 May 2015, 06:08 PM

I've also been experiencing problems sending and receiving to @btinternet.com addresses. Seems pretty sporadic though

Clicker · 21 May 2015, 07:32 PM

Similar problems here. Just today I've noticed emails sent 2 or 3 days ago trickling in. All @btinternet.com addresses. Glad robn is onto it now, definitely been scratching my head on this one.

jaybea28309 · 6 Jun 2015, 07:08 PM

This still seems to be happening to me, and has been for several months now. I assumed at first it was a particular email address, but I am having the same problems with another btinternet email address, including some bounces rather than just delayed messages:

Code:

Final-Recipient: rfc822; ******@btinternet.com

Original-Recipient: rfc822;*****@btinternet.com

Action: failed

Status: 4.4.2

Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection

    with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO

BritTim · 7 Jun 2015, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaybea28309

This still seems to be happening to me, and has been for several months now. I assumed at first it was a particular email address, but I am having the same problems with another btinternet email address, including some bounces rather than just delayed messages:

Code:

Final-Recipient: rfc822; ******@btinternet.com

Original-Recipient: rfc822;*****@btinternet.com

Action: failed

Status: 4.4.2

Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection

    with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO

Intriguing. This is the same MX server where sprucemoose experienced the problem May 20. It is tempting to assume an equipment problem with that specific server at btinternet, though it could be a coincidence. This could be a difficult issue for FM to work around, as the MX server starts to receive then fails.

jaybea28309 · 7 Jun 2015, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritTim

Intriguing. This is the same MX server where sprucemoose experienced the problem May 20. It is tempting to assume an equipment problem with that specific server at btinternet, though it could be a coincidence. This could be a difficult issue for FM to work around, as the MX server starts to receive then fails.

I have checked back through my messages. I have only been having this specific problem since 19 May 2015 (the other messages were different issues). They all seem to involve the same server (65.20.0.49).

sprucemoose · 7 Jun 2015, 11:10 PM

Yep got this again in response to an email sent yesterday

delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO

It may well be just an issue with this particular server as you say, looking back at the IP addresses in previous error reports.

As you can probably pick up from the hostname, BTInternet email services are mostly* provided by Critical Path (now part of Openwave), not sure if this helps in terms of FM reporting the problem. I'd be amazed if anyone at BT itself was actually able to do anything about a fault report!

*some are still to transition from the BT-Yahoo! service though looking at the headers I get to my BT account it looks like everything goes via the Critical Path servers first now. That's a bit of a guess though...

rps London · 11 Jun 2015, 08:43 PM

I'm getting this same problem repeatedly this week, with the same server number, having had it only with one BTinternet address in recent weeks. Some of the messages eventually get through - some finally bounce back. It's really annoying - as it is hard to keep track of who has received what. Nothing we can do?

n5bb · 11 Jun 2015, 10:38 PM

Be sure to file Fastmail support requests on such issues. That's the only way that Fastmail staff can track those connection problems in their server logs.

Bill

BritTim · 11 Jun 2015, 10:52 PM

There are some long threads at community.bt.com on delivery problems with btinternet.com emails. The issues seem to have started in January and many reports mention sending from Gmail. In some cases the issue seems to be with SPF records. They suggest ending the SPF record with ~all not ?all. Apparently, delivery is unreliable in the latter case (for dubious reasons). FM currently uses ?all. FM may want to assess the potential overall impact of such a change and try it if possible to see if the problem goes away.

NJSS · 16 Jun 2015, 06:33 AM

I too have been suffering similar problems.

NJSS

robn · 16 Jun 2015, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BritTim

They suggest ending the SPF record with ~all not ?all. Apparently, delivery is unreliable in the latter case (for dubious reasons). FM currently uses ?all. FM may want to assess the potential overall impact of such a change and try it if possible to see if the problem goes away.

No, that would be an incredibly bad idea.

~all is SoftFail, which is an assertion that "sender is not valid for this domain, but do not treat it as invalid". Its usually used while transitioning to a full Fail policy (-all).

?all is Neutral, which is a lack of assertion, and says "we have nothing to say about the validity of this sender for this domain".

The reason why ?all is appropriate for us is that anything else would require everyone to send through our servers, and that doesn't match the workflow used by many of customers, which often involves sending through an ISP or corporate SMTP host.

Any server that treats a ?all as Fail is broken. We will not be changing this.

BritTim · 16 Jun 2015, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robn

No, that would be an incredibly bad idea.

~all is SoftFail, which is an assertion that "sender is not valid for this domain, but do not treat it as invalid". Its usually used while transitioning to a full Fail policy (-all).

?all is Neutral, which is a lack of assertion, and says "we have nothing to say about the validity of this sender for this domain".

The reason why ?all is appropriate for us is that anything else would require everyone to send through our servers, and that doesn't match the workflow used by many of customers, which often involves sending through an ISP or corporate SMTP host.

Any server that treats a ?all as Fail is broken. We will not be changing this.

Fair enough ... now, how do we educate Critical Path?

20 May 2015, 07:21 AM	#1
sprucemoose Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 11	Issue sending to @btinternet.com addresses For the last couple of weeks I've had "delayed mail" notifications when sending to @btinternet.com addresses. As they are a major UK ISP and I have no problems sending to there from a different account (eg hotmail) I'm wondering if there's something specific going on between Fastmail's servers and BT (or their email provider)? A typical message is delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO Mails seem to eventually get through after many hours. If I can provide any other details to assist diagnosis, let me know.

6 Jun 2015, 07:08 PM	#6
jaybea28309 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 19	This still seems to be happening to me, and has been for several months now. I assumed at first it was a particular email address, but I am having the same problems with another btinternet email address, including some bounces rather than just delayed messages: Code: Final-Recipient: rfc822; ****@btinternet.com Original-Recipient: rfc822;***@btinternet.com Action: failed Status: 4.4.2 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO

11 Jun 2015, 08:43 PM	#10
rps London Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6	This problem seems to be escalating I'm getting this same problem repeatedly this week, with the same server number, having had it only with one BTinternet address in recent weeks. Some of the messages eventually get through - some finally bounce back. It's really annoying - as it is hard to keep track of who has received what. Nothing we can do?

20 May 2015, 09:06 AM	#2
robn Master of the @ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,007 Representative of: Fastmail.fm	Interesting. It looks sort of like we're being rate limited to a degree, but there's also some minor connection problems, so its hard to be sure. A quick look over the traffic destined for that server suggests its all pretty much legitimate, and hasn't increased in volume recently, so I don't have any quick answers. I've changed our outgoing IP address just in case its an IP-based block. I'm seeing some of the queued mail being delivered, but still some being deferred. I'll keep an eye on it over the next couple of days and maybe try to contact their mail admins for more info.

20 May 2015, 11:29 PM	#3
gj15 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Just west of the Greenwich meridian Posts: 59	I think incoming mail might be affected too. I’ve just received two messages from a btinternet account to my fastmail account. The first timestamped Tue, 19 May 2015 21:57:42 +0100 by rgout05.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk then timestamped Wed, 20 May 2015 10:01:37 -0400 by mx5.messagingengine.com. The second timestamped Tue, 19 May 2015 22:00:27 +0100 rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk then timestamped Wed, 20 May 2015 09:53:13 -0400 mx5.messagingengine.com. The earlier sent one arriving later.

21 May 2015, 06:08 PM	#4
hatticus Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 28	I've also been experiencing problems sending and receiving to @btinternet.com addresses. Seems pretty sporadic though

21 May 2015, 07:32 PM	#5
Clicker Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 6	Similar problems here. Just today I've noticed emails sent 2 or 3 days ago trickling in. All @btinternet.com addresses. Glad robn is onto it now, definitely been scratching my head on this one.

7 Jun 2015, 11:10 PM	#9
sprucemoose Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 11	Yep got this again in response to an email sent yesterday delivery temporarily suspended: lost connection with mx.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk[65.20.0.49] while sending RCPT TO It may well be just an issue with this particular server as you say, looking back at the IP addresses in previous error reports. As you can probably pick up from the hostname, BTInternet email services are mostly* provided by Critical Path (now part of Openwave), not sure if this helps in terms of FM reporting the problem. I'd be amazed if anyone at BT itself was actually able to do anything about a fault report! *some are still to transition from the BT-Yahoo! service though looking at the headers I get to my BT account it looks like everything goes via the Critical Path servers first now. That's a bit of a guess though...

11 Jun 2015, 10:38 PM	#11
n5bb Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: May 2004 Location: Irving, Texas Posts: 8,929	Be sure to file Fastmail support requests on such issues. That's the only way that Fastmail staff can track those connection problems in their server logs. Bill

11 Jun 2015, 10:52 PM	#12
BritTim The "e" in e-mail Join Date: May 2003 Location: mostly in Thailand Posts: 3,095	There are some long threads at community.bt.com on delivery problems with btinternet.com emails. The issues seem to have started in January and many reports mention sending from Gmail. In some cases the issue seems to be with SPF records. They suggest ending the SPF record with ~all not ?all. Apparently, delivery is unreliable in the latter case (for dubious reasons). FM currently uses ?all. FM may want to assess the potential overall impact of such a change and try it if possible to see if the problem goes away.

16 Jun 2015, 06:33 AM	#13
NJSS Master of the @ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,238	I too have been suffering similar problems. NJSS