Using IMAP and POP from One Email Client

[bbrener]

It appears to me as if it is possible to use both IMAP and POP simultaneously in either Outlook or Outlook Express.

When pulling using POP from FastMail it only downloads from the primary INBOX. So if Fastmail is defined twice as 2 separate accounts (one POP and one IMAP) it is possible to have POP from FastMail Inbox pulled to Inbox in Outlook while subfolders can be used as IMAP (As can Inbox if you desire by not deleting when using POP).

Is there any downside to this approach?

[Stinger]

Originally posted by bbrener
It appears to me as if it is possible to use both IMAP and POP simultaneously in either Outlook or Outlook Express.

When pulling using POP from FastMail it only downloads from the primary INBOX. So if Fastmail is defined twice as 2 separate accounts (one POP and one IMAP) it is possible to have POP from FastMail Inbox pulled to Inbox in Outlook while subfolders can be used as IMAP (As can Inbox if you desire by not deleting when using POP).

Is there any downside to this approach?

If you have selected not to delete with pop you will just end up with the same messages in both local and IMAP Inboxes if this is a downside

[Shelded]

Originally posted by bbrener
Is there any downside to this approach?

Is there any upside to this approach?

[bbrener]

Originally posted by shelded
Is there any upside to this approach?

Depends on your needs. Outlook is somewhat erratic in its handling of IMAP. Outlook filters do not work on mail coming via IMAP whereas it does for POP; it does not download correctly unless clicked email by email etc. I choose to have a number of email addresses to sort mail for specific purposes e.g auctions while always wishing to download my personal Email. Specifically, IMAP is also too complicated for my wife! Her mail need sto show up automagically in Outlok inbox.
Using POP to download her email and my personal mail, while using IMAP for the subfolders works for me.

Brian

[bbrener]

Originally posted by shelded
Is there any upside to this approach?

I forgot one other major item. I have found that ZoneAlarm's Mailsafe does not work with attachments that are downloaded via IMAP. Despite the fact that their technical support says it does, I have proved that it does not. (Send an attachment with a filetype like 'exe' and download it with both POP and IMAP. Only the POP version gets converted into a ZLx file). You can test this at www.jasons-toolbox.com . He has a script file to test email.
Norton antivirus also says it supports IMAP, but I am suspicious of that. Cannot prove it yet though. IMAP, certainly with Outlook does not seem to get the same protection as POP. Can't tell you how many Klez emails NAV has caught through my POP mail.

Brian

[michaelj]

Originally posted by bbrener


Norton antivirus also says it supports IMAP, but I am suspicious of that. Cannot prove it yet though. IMAP, certainly with Outlook does not seem to get the same protection as POP. Can't tell you how many Klez emails NAV has caught through my POP mail.

Brian

NAV does, in fact, trap viruses through IMAP, as I've seen it catch Klez.
Regarding your using IMAP and Outlook's rules, this also works for me. I move a copy of all mail received through my own domain to a separate directory (not inbox) on my local Outlook pst folder as a backup.
What you can't do is enable POP and IMAP and expect that only alias mail will go through POP, they'll all go. You could set a rule to look for the alias name in IMAP and move a copy to the local pst if you also want to keep a copy on IMAP, or move the file if you want the file deleted from IMAP after it's moved. The only thing you need to remember is when you move the original copy from IMAP to the local pst file it gets deleted from the IMAP server, but it does not get purged.
As I mentioned in a previous post, Outlook 2000 (and I'm assuming 2002 as well, though I've never seen it) stores all rules in one file. I suspect that people who are having problems getting rules to work have created and deleted a lot of rules, and this file could be corrupted. I would suggest removing all rules, deleting the rules file, and starting over.
When I first signed on with Fastmail.Fm I was unfamiliar with IMAP and went with what was familiar to me, POP. I then enabled IMAP and ran both, keeping the file on the POP server. After I was comfortable with IMAP I disabled the POP downloads from Fastmail.Fm. There really is no advantage to POP, since IMAP does everything and more than POP.

Michael

[bbrener]

Michael, thank you. A lot of information that generates more questions!

Originally posted by michaelj


Regarding your using IMAP and Outlook's rules, this also works for me. I move a copy of all mail received through my own domain to a separate directory (not inbox) on my local Outlook pst folder as a backup.

Michael

By own domain I assume you have a domain forwarding to Fastmail? Which IMAP folder does it go into? INBOX?
I have set up Fastmail in its own send/receive group. Then when I set up the rule, I set it up for account Fastmail but am trying to move mail out of a folder other than INBOX. If I run the rule manually while in that folder it works but not in any other folder.

Can you tell me how you have set up your rules and send/receive groups exactly? I assume you have a rule that looks for your domain copies to another folder? Do you specify an account and will it work across all your Fastmail folders?

Originally posted by michaelj


What you can't do is enable POP and IMAP and expect that only alias mail will go through POP, they'll all go. You could set a rule to look for the alias name in IMAP and move a copy to the local pst if you also want to keep a copy on IMAP.

Michael

What is your definition of alias mail? I assume you mean from your own domain? I realize it will all go, but only my alias mail goes to Inbox. All other mail goes to subfolders so POP will not download it. Do your rules run automatically through ALL Fastmail folders?

Originally posted by michaelj


As I mentioned in a previous post, Outlook 2000 (and I'm assuming 2002 as well, though I've never seen it) stores all rules in one file. I suspect that people who are having problems getting rules to work have created and deleted a lot of rules, and this file could be corrupted. I would suggest removing all rules, deleting the rules file, and starting over.

Michael

Outlook 2002 (and I think Outlook 2000) does not have a file for rules. You can export them to a RWZ file so you can import them again. They are in the PST file. (According to MS support articles). The way to delete them is to manually delete all rules. I did this, but it does not help.

Well, IMAP in Outlook does not seem perfect, but if I get the rules to work and mail can be automatically moved aftre receipt, then it will work for me. However I have a lot of subfolders that I need rules to work in as well. For example,all my auction stuff goes into an IMAP folder called 'Auction'. when mail arrives I need it moved to a PST folder called 'Auction' for backup.

Thanks for your help.
Brian

[michaelj]

Originally posted by bbrener

By own domain I assume you have a domain forwarding to Fastmail? Which IMAP folder does it go into? INBOX?
I have set up Fastmail in its own send/receive group. Then when I set up the rule, I set it up for account Fastmail but am trying to move mail out of a folder other than INBOX. If I run the rule manually while in that folder it works but not in any other folder.

My own domain is michael@firstnamelastname.org. I don't have any Fastmail.Fm filter set for this, so all of that mail goes into the IMAP Inbox. I realize this isn't want you need. For me I want it this way because I need to be able to grab mail from Fastmail.Fm and pull it into my "myvzw.com" Pop retrieval for access into my cell phone. (myvzw.com - Verizon's wireless portal, does not retrieve mail from anything except "Inbox", and although they have an IMAP setting it simply doesn't work, so I have to use POP for this feature and "leave the message on the server.
My rule is simple:
1. Apply this rule after the message arrives with "firstnamelastname.org" in the recipient's address.
2. play c:\directory\waves\psycho.wav
3. and move a copy to the lastname folder

Can you tell me how you have set up your rules and send/receive groups exactly? I assume you have a rule that looks for your domain copies and sends them to another folder? Do you specify an account and will it work across all your Fastmail folders?

I can't specify a particular account because the only account that is active is my Fastmail.Fm account (and one other that's not linked via POP retrieval to Fastmail.Fm), because my domain mail is sent directly to Fastmail.Fm. This is the downside of having all mail as being an alias of one account.
Try this: Remove your Fastmail.Fm rule from Fastmail's website.
Your auction mail will then go to the IMAP Inbox folder.
Create a rule to move a copy of mail received with whatever attribute you can single out that signifies auction. This copy can be moved to any local pst folder of your choice. I actually have a rule that forwards a copy of eBay mail to my cell phone.
Directly below that, create a rule to move, this time not a copy, the e mail to your auction fastmail account.
When you move a copy the original remains in the Fastmail.Fm IMAP inbox. When you move the original, the mail will be marked for deletion in Fastmail.Fm's IMAP inbox. There is no rule that can purge your deleted mail from IMAP, so you're stuck doing that on your own or waiting for the scheduled mail deletion.
Unfortunately Outlook's rules only work with mail originating in Inbox, IMAP or POP pst folder.
I just confirmed the above, as follows:
I have a Fastmail.Fm rule that sends all mail with [keriofirewall], a Yahoo group, to a specific IMAP folder. I wrote an Outlook rule that moves all mail with [keriofirewall] in the subject to a local folder on my local pst file. It didn't work, because the mail was moved out of the IMAP Inbox by Fastmail.Fm before Outlook had the chance to run the rule.

What is your definition of alias mail? I assume you mean from your own domain? I realize it will all go, but only my alias mail goes to Inbox. All other mail goes to subfolders so POP will not download it. Do your rules run automatically through ALL Fastmail folders?

All mail that goes through Fastmail.Fm is an alias of my main Fastmail.Fm account, so technically that's the only account running, with the exception of one POP account that I don't want to go through Fastmail.Fm. This account is an alias of my main, RoadRunner account, and that I use for self inflicted SPAM, newsletters, shopping, etc. Again, Outlook's rules only work through Inbox, so the trick is to not have Fastmail.Fm rules, but use Outlook's rules to move the mail within the IMAP folders if you want to have local copies in your local pst file.

Outlook 2002 (and I think Outlook 2000) does not have a file for rules. You can export them to a RWZ file so you can import them again. They are in the PST file. (According to MS support articles). The way to delete them is to manually delete all rules. I did this, but it does not help.

Oh really? The next time you speak with Bill Gates tell him that Michael J from the Fastmail.Fm forum had a hard drive crash two weeks ago. Tell him that, like a good soldier, he had a current backup of his pst file but he failed to backup his RWZ file from Outlook 2000 because Microsoft put it in a stupid place and he forgot to include that sub-sub-sub folder in his backups. Ask Bill why all of Michael's rules stopped working after he set up Outlook 2000 again, and why he had to recreate the rules.
Well, they're "sort of" correct, in that Outlook tried to run the rules, so there were some pointers in the pst file that were looking for the rules. When the RWZ file was not found Outlook 2000 whined. The rules were also noted by their absence in the Rules (non) Wizard. Perhaps the rules are embedded in Outlook 2002's pst, but not in 2000.

Well, IMAP in Outlook does not seem perfect, but if I get the rules to work and mail can be automatically moved aftre receipt, then it will work for me. However I have a lot of subfolders that I need rules to work in as well. For example,all my auction stuff goes into an IMAP folder called 'Auction'. when mail arrives I need it moved to a PST folder called 'Auction' for backup.

It's not IMAP in Outlook that's not perfect, it's Outlook that's not perfect. All settings and rules behave the same way with IMAP and with the local pst file. Everything must start in an Inbox. The trick is to be creative about the types of rules you set. It would seem to me that Microsoft could simply add a rule that allows you to point to any folder and say "run the rule against mail in this folder, particularly for IMAP, but nooooo.

Thanks for your help.
Brian

You're quite welcome. Anytime.

Michael

[bbrener]

Michael, once again many thanks for the detailed post.

Originally posted by michaelj


It's not IMAP in Outlook that's not perfect, it's Outlook that's not perfect. All settings and rules behave the same way with IMAP and with the local pst file. Everything must start in an Inbox. The trick is to be creative about the types of rules you set. It would seem to me that Microsoft could simply add a rule that allows you to point to any folder and say "run the rule against mail in this folder, particularly for IMAP, but nooooo.

Herein lies the key. I had always assumed that it could be run against a subfolder and that is why I thought it was not working. I did not realize that it had to run an inbox. So a little of catch-22. I do not use fastmail.fm rules but I do use the alias facility to end mail directly into sub folders. It has the same effect.
When I run rules against the Inbox as you do it does work. My confusion. Thank you for the clarification.

Note also that Outlook has a bug that is in many posts all over Usenet that rules run erratically (works sometimes and not others) on initial Outlook startup and I have experienced that. If mail arrives after Outlook is running then it seems to work much better.

Originally posted by michaelj


Oh really? The next time you speak with Bill Gates tell him that Michael J from the Fastmail.Fm forum had a hard drive crash two weeks ago. Tell him that, like a good soldier, he had a current backup of his pst file but he failed to backup his RWZ file from Outlook 2000 because Microsoft put it in a stupid place and he forgot to include that sub-sub-sub folder in his backups. Ask Bill why all of Michael's rules stopped working after he set up Outlook 2000 again, and why he had to recreate the rules.
Well, they're "sort of" correct, in that Outlook tried to run the rules, so there were some pointers in the pst file that were looking for the rules. When the RWZ file was not found Outlook 2000 whined. The rules were also noted by their absence in the Rules (non) Wizard. Perhaps the rules are embedded in Outlook 2002's pst, but not in 2000.

I am not an expert, but I can tell you that there is no RWZ file until you export rules. If you don't export rules, there is no RWZ file on your PC. I do not have one in Outlook 2002. So this is a way to back them up, but it is not part of the problem you refer to, I believe.
I can also tell you that I used RWZ on Outlook 2000 and when I re-imported it into Outlook 2002 the rules did not work right and I recreated them anyway. Rules are not clean, what can I say!!
I have a neat program (INCTRL from PCMag utilities) that can do a before and after snapshot of your PC, usually used for an install to tell you what files have been installed/changed and what registry entries have been similarly added/changed. (Very useful!)
I ran it after adding a rule. No files on my PC changed (the PST file was open so it did not show).
Send me a PM with your Email address if you'd like a copy or go to www.pcmag.com to download. (You have to register but it's free)

Nice talking with you.
Thanks again.

Brian

[michaelj]

[quote]Originally posted by bbrener
Note also that Outlook has a bug that is in many posts all over Usenet that rules run erratically (works sometimes and not others) on initial Outlook startup and I have experienced that. If mail arrives after Outlook is running then it seems to work much better.
I've seen this. It appears as if the "retrive" command is sent before Outlook is fully loaded, and so those e mails end up in the Inbox.

I am not an expert, but I can tell you that there is no RWZ file until you export rules. If you don't export rules, there is no RWZ file on your PC. I do not have one in Outlook 2002. So this is a way to back them up, but it is not part of the problem you refer to, I believe.
I can also tell you that I used RWZ on Outlook 2000 and when I re-imported it into Outlook 2002 the rules did not work right and I recreated them anyway. Rules are not clean, what can I say!!

I'm not really either, but I know that I had no rules with a full copy of my pst and when I reinstalled the same version 2000. Outlook initially whined that it had no rules to run, so apparently the pst file knew I had rules, but the rules were nowhere to be found. After the initial download of new messages the part within the pst erased or 'forgot' that rules should exist.
I'm not surprised that 2002 didn't recognize rules created in 2000. When I got a new PC and installed 2000 from a previous pst that ran on '98 I exported/imported the rules. Outlook warned me that some things wouldn't function, so I deleted all the rules and started over.
I also have not backed up my rules on 2000 since the latest install, yet the RWZ file is there. It seems as if MS changed the handling again.

I have a neat program (INCTRL from PCMag utilities) that can do a before and after snapshot of your PC
Nice talking with you.
Thanks again.
Brian

Check your PM.

Michael