forced off old interface - can't "delete permanently/redirect/etc"

splustest · 5 Oct 2012, 05:28 AM

Finally forced off the old interface. Know I don't like the current
interface so went to the beta interface. Selected an email, changed
More Action to "Delete Permanently" - nothing happened. The old
interface had a "Do" button. No such thing with beta interface. So
instead of a simple process, I had to "Delete" the email, then go to
the Trash and empty trash to permanently delete the email. As a
test also selected an email to Redirect, set More Action to Redirect,
again nothing. No box to enter a redirect address into nor a "Do"
button. *$#^*%&(^%

sflorack · 5 Oct 2012, 08:07 PM

You're seeing different behaviors than I am (Google Chrome).

I don't see "Delete Permanently" under the More pull-down. I do, however see "Redirect", and it provides a pop-up box to enter the recipient.

johanborg · 5 Oct 2012, 08:38 PM

The current interface also displays a "Do" button if your browser does not support JavaScript. Otherwise it will trigger the action when you select the menu entry. What browser do you use where this is a problem? And do you browse with JavaScript turned on or off?

neilj · 5 Oct 2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johanborg

The current interface also displays a "Do" button if your browser does not support JavaScript. Otherwise it will trigger the action when you select the menu entry. What browser do you use where this is a problem? And do you browse with JavaScript turned on or off?

He's using the beta interface, not the current one.

* Delete permanently -> There's no button any more, but there's a keyboard shortcut: Shift-5.
* Redirect -> In an open conversation, there's a "More" link in the header of each expanded message. This will reveal a menu which includes the Redirect command.

Neil.

splustest · 6 Oct 2012, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflorack

You're seeing different behaviors than I am (Google Chrome).

I don't see "Delete Permanently" under the More pull-down. I do, however see "Redirect", and it provides a pop-up box to enter the recipient.

Using Firefox. I'm sure "Delete Permanently" was there. See below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilj

He's using the beta interface, not the current one.

* Delete permanently -> There's no button any more, but there's a keyboard shortcut: Shift-5.
* Redirect -> In an open conversation, there's a "More" link in the header of each expanded message. This will reveal a menu which includes the Redirect command.

Neil.

Don't understand. There is/was a "Delete Permanently" under More
Action(s). If it doesn't do anything, why is it there? Are you saying
I select the action I want and then do Sihft-5 to "Do" whatever I have
selected under More Action(s)? Or is Shift-5 a shortcut for "Delete
Permanently"?

If there was a Redirect under More Action(s) why do I need to open a
message to redirect?

For both of the actions - Delete Permanently and Redirect - at times
I want to select multiple messages and perform the action.

Finally, I can't verify any of the above. I can no longer even log in. It
keeps saying my session has "expired". I've cleared cache and there
are no cookies. I've tried on two different computers - Linux and Windows.
Does the same thing on both. The old interface worked. It wasn't broke.

neilj · 6 Oct 2012, 04:06 PM

Oh, I see. You have JavaScript disabled, so although you're logging in at beta.fastmail.fm, you're actually using the current interface (the new one is entirely built with JavaScript). There should be a do button if scripts are disabled. What browser are you using and how have you disabled JavaScript? Sounds like it could be a problem with a buggy extension. Or perhaps you'd like to try enabling JavaScript, at least for FastMail.

Neil.

drew · 6 Oct 2012, 05:18 PM

I am a poor reader so if you have told us exactly what url you use
then I do apology but for to test this one have to know where
you log in.

Okay I test several of them.

I have Linux OS and use Firefox 15 or something.
I have activated latest version of NoScipt that
shut of javascript so that will be interestng.

I start with Oldest url I know of.

https://www.fastmail.fm/

is that not the older one? I report back what does happen.

I got logged in to my Guest account and could do three different delete.
Deleted from inbox one email and from Trash folder one email
and emtied the Trash permanently 44 emails.

So that where the old and now I will test the beta log in.
https://beta.fastmail.fm/
That worked well too. Could delete an email.

So if your problem still persist do read all the suggestions
the other have given you and write down what you make use of
and exactly what does happen at what url and what is lacking.

splustest · 6 Oct 2012, 05:43 PM

Using Firefox. I just enabled Javascript. It did the same thing. I WAS able
to login two? days ago without enabling Javascript (I thought) when the
message came up saying old.fastmail.fm has been retired. The next day
I could not.

And I "thought" the URL location after logging in had said beta.fastmail.

I didn't pay precise attention to what happened when I was able to log
in since it just worked. Now, when I try going to the old interface, I get
the window about old.fastmail.fm being retired and have the option to
try either the current or the beta interface. I click on beta. It brings up
a window with "too much graphics". I enter username and password
and click Login. Then it sends me to a different login screen that looks
closer to the old login. Reenter username and password, setting session
time to 8 hours. (https://beta.fastmail.fm/mail/?MLS=LN-*&&hasjs=1,
https://beta.fastmail.fm/mail/?MLS=LN-*& if Javascript disabled.)
Then when I click Login, it comes up with the a brief screen about
clicking "here" if not redirected in a few seconds. Finally, it comes up
with the login screen again with the message:

The session you are trying to use has expired. This is either because you were inactive for more than 2 hours or clicked the Logout button. Please enter your user name and password to login again and I'll try and continue from where you left off. If you were trying to send an email, DON'T PANIC, just log in below again and I'll send it off.

(https://beta.fastmail.fm/mail/?MLS=L...c&MSignal=MB-*)

I have tried a number of times to login again from THIS screen, but it
always comes back with the session expired message.

(Won't be looking at this thread again until tomorrow morning sometime.)

Well, just noticed drew had a response so I'll reply to that here too.
What drew did was exactly what I did when I was able to log in two
days ago. But as I said I could not simply do "Delete Permanently" or
"Redirect" as I used to be able to do on the old interface. I had to go
through extra steps of deleting the email and then emptying the
trash. And I wasn't able to check out what Shift-5 does as someone
had suggested since I can no longer log in.

splustest · 8 Oct 2012, 03:06 AM

The "current" interface works. Don't know why the beta interface worked
one day and not the next. (Still gives the same error messages.) But
at least I was able to login and download all my email in preparation
for it not working in the future and looking for a different email provider.

robmueller · 8 Oct 2012, 10:33 AM

Odd.

I can think of one thing that might cause this. If you completely disable accepting cookies in your browser, sessions will no longer work.

The existing session system (what's currently on http://www.fastmail.fm) tried to detect if cookies were disabled, and put the session id in your URL. The new system (what's currently on http://beta.fastmail.fm) no longer does this because:

1. It's a security risk
2. It's an old historical left over from the really, really early days of development (we're talking 1998/1999!) when cookie support still wasn't 100%. There's absolutely no reason for it any more, all browsers support cookies

Bamb0 · 8 Oct 2012, 12:28 PM

Well some people look at cookies as a security risk Rob and have all cookies blocked...

I tried that and i had some problems on a couple sites that DIDNT WORK WELL WITH SESSION IDs (In the link) I kept getting dropped......... (Had to re-login)

I just have 3rd party cookies blocked..

splustest · 8 Oct 2012, 02:15 PM

First, I just removed the "Block" of cookies from fastmail.fm and
www.fastmail.fm that I had in my browser preferences. Logging
into beta.fastmail.fm works. (Doesn't explain why it did work a
few days ago since the blocking of those cookies has been on
my system forever - I thought.)

Second, is there a way to set preferences to disable sessions
so I don't need cookies as in the past? (If there are no "sessions"
allowed, then there is no security risk???)

99% (or 100%) of the reason I chose fastmail (8, 9, whenever
years ago) was solely because it didn't require cookies or Javascrript.

neilj · 8 Oct 2012, 02:32 PM

The reason it worked before is that beta was using the old sessions system; it's now on the new one. In a few days we will be switching all of FastMail over to the new system, so cookies will be required to log in on any interface. As Rob said, the previous system had some work-arounds to support browsers without cookies enabled, but this was only due to legacy support for really ancient browsers that didn't support cookies properly. The new system does not do this, as it is much less secure than the system using cookies.

Please enable cookies for www.fastmail.fm / beta.fastmail.fm.

drew · 8 Oct 2012, 06:24 PM

Neilj something went wrong here
https://www.fastmail.fm/beta.fastmail.fm
Should it just be https://www.fastmail.fm/
I test this one Edit that show the old interface
so what url are you referring to?

oops maybe is explained here
http://blog.fastmail.fm/2012/10/04/goodbye-old/

splustest · 9 Oct 2012, 04:04 AM

Is it possible to explain further?

I have no real security knowledge, but I have read about
security issues/attacks now and then. I do remember
reading about security problems that were caused with
the use of cookies and Javascript. The recommendations
associated with those issues said to avoid the problems,
the user should disable Javascript and remove cookies.
(I can believe these problems were caused by underlying
software bugs that were later fixed, but I also believe there
will always be "underlying software bugs".)

I have never read about security problems that said to
avoid the issue one SHOULD have cookies and/or use
Javascript.

So why does Fastmail say it is more secure to use
cookies and Javascript???

5 Oct 2012, 05:28 AM	#1
splustest Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 164	forced off old interface - can't "delete permanently/redirect/etc" Finally forced off the old interface. Know I don't like the current interface so went to the beta interface. Selected an email, changed More Action to "Delete Permanently" - nothing happened. The old interface had a "Do" button. No such thing with beta interface. So instead of a simple process, I had to "Delete" the email, then go to the Trash and empty trash to permanently delete the email. As a test also selected an email to Redirect, set More Action to Redirect, again nothing. No box to enter a redirect address into nor a "Do" button. $#^%&(^%

6 Oct 2012, 05:18 PM	#7
drew The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,626	I am a poor reader so if you have told us exactly what url you use then I do apology but for to test this one have to know where you log in. Okay I test several of them. I have Linux OS and use Firefox 15 or something. I have activated latest version of NoScipt that shut of javascript so that will be interestng. I start with Oldest url I know of. https://www.fastmail.fm/ is that not the older one? I report back what does happen. I got logged in to my Guest account and could do three different delete. Deleted from inbox one email and from Trash folder one email and emtied the Trash permanently 44 emails. So that where the old and now I will test the beta log in. https://beta.fastmail.fm/ That worked well too. Could delete an email. So if your problem still persist do read all the suggestions the other have given you and write down what you make use of and exactly what does happen at what url and what is lacking. Last edited by drew : 6 Oct 2012 at 05:27 PM.

8 Oct 2012, 02:32 PM	#13
neilj Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 971 Representative of: Fastmail.fm	The reason it worked before is that beta was using the old sessions system; it's now on the new one. In a few days we will be switching all of FastMail over to the new system, so cookies will be required to log in on any interface. As Rob said, the previous system had some work-arounds to support browsers without cookies enabled, but this was only due to legacy support for really ancient browsers that didn't support cookies properly. The new system does not do this, as it is much less secure than the system using cookies. Please enable cookies for www.fastmail.fm / beta.fastmail.fm. Last edited by neilj : 8 Oct 2012 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Fix urls

5 Oct 2012, 08:07 PM	#2
sflorack The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,937	You're seeing different behaviors than I am (Google Chrome). I don't see "Delete Permanently" under the More pull-down. I do, however see "Redirect", and it provides a pop-up box to enter the recipient.

5 Oct 2012, 08:38 PM	#3
johanborg Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 213 Representative of: Opera.com	The current interface also displays a "Do" button if your browser does not support JavaScript. Otherwise it will trigger the action when you select the menu entry. What browser do you use where this is a problem? And do you browse with JavaScript turned on or off?

6 Oct 2012, 04:06 PM	#6
neilj Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Melbourne Posts: 971 Representative of: Fastmail.fm	Oh, I see. You have JavaScript disabled, so although you're logging in at beta.fastmail.fm, you're actually using the current interface (the new one is entirely built with JavaScript). There should be a do button if scripts are disabled. What browser are you using and how have you disabled JavaScript? Sounds like it could be a problem with a buggy extension. Or perhaps you'd like to try enabling JavaScript, at least for FastMail. Neil.

6 Oct 2012, 05:43 PM	#8
splustest Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 164	Using Firefox. I just enabled Javascript. It did the same thing. I WAS able to login two? days ago without enabling Javascript (I thought) when the message came up saying old.fastmail.fm has been retired. The next day I could not. And I "thought" the URL location after logging in had said beta.fastmail. I didn't pay precise attention to what happened when I was able to log in since it just worked. Now, when I try going to the old interface, I get the window about old.fastmail.fm being retired and have the option to try either the current or the beta interface. I click on beta. It brings up a window with "too much graphics". I enter username and password and click Login. Then it sends me to a different login screen that looks closer to the old login. Reenter username and password, setting session time to 8 hours. (https://beta.fastmail.fm/mail/?MLS=LN-&&hasjs=1, https://beta.fastmail.fm/mail/?MLS=LN-& if Javascript disabled.) Then when I click Login, it comes up with the a brief screen about clicking "here" if not redirected in a few seconds. Finally, it comes up with the login screen again with the message: The session you are trying to use has expired. This is either because you were inactive for more than 2 hours or clicked the Logout button. Please enter your user name and password to login again and I'll try and continue from where you left off. If you were trying to send an email, DON'T PANIC, just log in below again and I'll send it off. (https://beta.fastmail.fm/mail/?MLS=L...c&MSignal=MB-*) I have tried a number of times to login again from THIS screen, but it always comes back with the session expired message. (Won't be looking at this thread again until tomorrow morning sometime.) Well, just noticed drew had a response so I'll reply to that here too. What drew did was exactly what I did when I was able to log in two days ago. But as I said I could not simply do "Delete Permanently" or "Redirect" as I used to be able to do on the old interface. I had to go through extra steps of deleting the email and then emptying the trash. And I wasn't able to check out what Shift-5 does as someone had suggested since I can no longer log in.

8 Oct 2012, 03:06 AM	#9
splustest Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 164	The "current" interface works. Don't know why the beta interface worked one day and not the next. (Still gives the same error messages.) But at least I was able to login and download all my email in preparation for it not working in the future and looking for a different email provider.

8 Oct 2012, 10:33 AM	#10
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Odd. I can think of one thing that might cause this. If you completely disable accepting cookies in your browser, sessions will no longer work. The existing session system (what's currently on http://www.fastmail.fm) tried to detect if cookies were disabled, and put the session id in your URL. The new system (what's currently on http://beta.fastmail.fm) no longer does this because: 1. It's a security risk 2. It's an old historical left over from the really, really early days of development (we're talking 1998/1999!) when cookie support still wasn't 100%. There's absolutely no reason for it any more, all browsers support cookies

8 Oct 2012, 12:28 PM	#11
Bamb0 Master of the @ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,873	Well some people look at cookies as a security risk Rob and have all cookies blocked... I tried that and i had some problems on a couple sites that DIDNT WORK WELL WITH SESSION IDs (In the link) I kept getting dropped......... (Had to re-login) I just have 3rd party cookies blocked..

8 Oct 2012, 02:15 PM	#12
splustest Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 164	First, I just removed the "Block" of cookies from fastmail.fm and www.fastmail.fm that I had in my browser preferences. Logging into beta.fastmail.fm works. (Doesn't explain why it did work a few days ago since the blocking of those cookies has been on my system forever - I thought.) Second, is there a way to set preferences to disable sessions so I don't need cookies as in the past? (If there are no "sessions" allowed, then there is no security risk???) 99% (or 100%) of the reason I chose fastmail (8, 9, whenever years ago) was solely because it didn't require cookies or Javascrript.

8 Oct 2012, 06:24 PM	#14
drew The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,626	Neilj something went wrong here https://www.fastmail.fm/beta.fastmail.fm Should it just be https://www.fastmail.fm/ I test this one Edit that show the old interface so what url are you referring to? oops maybe is explained here http://blog.fastmail.fm/2012/10/04/goodbye-old/

9 Oct 2012, 04:04 AM	#15
splustest Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 164	Is it possible to explain further? I have no real security knowledge, but I have read about security issues/attacks now and then. I do remember reading about security problems that were caused with the use of cookies and Javascript. The recommendations associated with those issues said to avoid the problems, the user should disable Javascript and remove cookies. (I can believe these problems were caused by underlying software bugs that were later fixed, but I also believe there will always be "underlying software bugs".) I have never read about security problems that said to avoid the issue one SHOULD have cookies and/or use Javascript. So why does Fastmail say it is more secure to use cookies and Javascript???