EmailDiscussions.com  

Go Back   EmailDiscussions.com > Email Service Provider-specific Forums > FastMail Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Stay in touch wirelessly

FastMail Forum All posts relating to FastMail.FM should go here: suggestions, comments, requests for help, complaints, technical issues etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 18 Dec 2019, 05:36 PM   #1
haryo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 106
Can't stop things going to spam.

I've had Fastmail for probably 15 years. About a month ago email from some friends started to go to spam. I added their domains to my contacts list, and turned spam filtering off, as fully as I could. "Reject messages from insecure servers" cannot be turned off. Today I deleted the 2 rules I had, neither of which sent anything to spam. Forwarding is off. t-online.de is one of the domains. The others tend to be US and UK non-profit domains. I find it hard to believe that these servers went 'insecure' essentially overnight.. I thing Hostgator may be the host for one of my senders, but some of the mail from that community gets through, and some doesn't. I Any thoughts? Can spam filtering be turned off completely?
Thanks.
haryo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 18 Dec 2019, 08:09 PM   #2
JeremyNicoll
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 483
If the emails from your friends that "are going to spam" are reaching you and then being placed in your spam folder, they are not being rejected.

If they'd been rejected, they would not be in any of your folders as FM would not have accepted them from the sending servers.

If those mails merely haven't arrived, then I'm unclear why you think they went "to spam"? How would you know where they went?

If those mails have been rejected, do you /know/ why? It seems to me that the only way to tell is for either FM to check their logs to see why those mails were rejected (but you might need to know more or less exactly when the sends were attempted) or for the senders to check their logs to see why FM's servers would not accept them.

Also "but some of the mail from that community gets through, and some doesn't" tends not to suggest that all the mail from a particular sending server is being rejected by FM, though it's possible that a sender might have serveral servers and not all of them are on a reject list.

Anyway, there's no point in indulging in guesswork. You need to establish the details of some emails which you are certain should have arrived. That's probably only possible if other people were CCed/BCCed on them and they got their copies. In the first place you need the sender to prove that they sent (or tried to send) the copies to you, and extract from their sending servers' logs the lines that show the mails leaving, or trying to leave, their systems. Then you need to talk to FM Support.

Last edited by JeremyNicoll : 18 Dec 2019 at 08:15 PM.
JeremyNicoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 08:22 PM   #3
haryo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 106
I find them in my Fastmail spam folder, which I only see if I happen to log in and poke around the folders. They are not downloaded by Thunderbird, which only downloads what's in the inbox.
haryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 08:33 PM   #4
JeremyNicoll
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 483
Ok, you need to explain more clearly how you process mail.

Does all your mail get sent to FM, or are other mail hosts involved too?

(I have no experience of Thunderbird ... but I /think/ what you say means it's using POP3 to download only the contents of the FM Inbox, whereas if TB were configured to use IMAP you'd see all(?) of your FM folders when using TB. I don't know if you can get TB to download them all though, and in any case maybe you don't want to.)

Have any mails been sent to the FM spam folder /after/ you turned off spam processing?
JeremyNicoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 08:45 PM   #5
haryo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 106
I've tinkered with every spam setting (on/off/ upped the threshold) over the past month, to no avail. The only new thing is the deleting today of the 2 rules which sent email to the Inbox if certain words were found. I've yet to see if that has an effect.
I do have some gmail accounts forward to my one Fastmail address, but they don't seem to be affected. The only ones that get siphoned off are to my Fastmail address directly. I'll have the problematic people send me some fresh emails today and see what happens.

Yes, POP3.

Last edited by haryo : 18 Dec 2019 at 08:50 PM. Reason: forgot to mention a detail
haryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 09:10 PM   #6
JeremyNicoll
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 483
If you still have examples of mails that have been sent to the spam folder, you should be able to see from their headers what their spam-scores were. If you need help understanding the scores, paste a copy of the spam score headers (making sure nothing confidential to you is in them) into a post here and ask for help understanding them.

With most of my mail providers I've always had spam processing turned off (that's to say the scores are still set but the mails are not sent to a spam folder, and certainly not auto-deleted). I've always had enough genuine mails marked as spam not to want to risk losing them.

But, I have lots (many hundreds) of email addresses, and know at a glance from an email address (because their values have a structure) what sort of genuine mail will come to it. So for example, if I get a "banking" email to a book-purchase-related email address I don't need to open it to know it is dodgy. I can see that anyone who only uses a single address (or a handful) has a bigger problem though.
JeremyNicoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 09:16 PM   #7
haryo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 106
Thanks. We'll see what happens today.

If the spam protection level is turned to 'off', shouldn't nothing get sent to spam?
haryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 09:37 PM   #8
JeremyNicoll
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by haryo View Post
If the spam protection level is turned to 'off', shouldn't nothing get sent to spam?
Yes.

But your first post strongly implied that you turned those settings off quite a while ago when you said "About a month ago ... and turned spam filtering off", but suggested mail was still ending up in the spam folder.

Have you kept notes (or better perhaps, since the 'spam protection' settings screen is a bit confusing) screenshots of its settings each time you've changed it?

I seem to remember that if one changes the overall control (off/standard/aggressive/custom) to a value and then back to what you had before the values in the righthand column don't go back to what you had them set to previously; each basic setting has defaults which get auto-selected. Also I think I found a while ago that one of the 'advanced preferences' gets altered according to the off/basic... control's value, which you won't even see changing unless the advanced prefs are opened up.

It's possible, if you've flicked through the possibilities, that you've not actually saved the exact values you thought you had. It's definitely a screen that, once you've made changes to, you should exit from, then go back and check (and then if ok, cancel out of).
JeremyNicoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 Dec 2019, 09:48 PM   #9
SideshowBob
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 278
IIWY I'd empty the "Junk Mail" folder to avoid any confusion, check spam filtering is still off, check for filters (and if you've ever used it custom sieve script).

If *anything* then turns-up in the "Junk Mail" folder, take it up with support.
SideshowBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Dec 2019, 12:10 AM   #10
Pfolson
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 490
Make sure you have spam filtering turned off in Thunderbird. Mail could be passing through FastMail just fine, then getting sent to the spam folder when it's downloaded by your mail client.

I've found it better to always rely on server-side filtering rather than letting the client get involved.
Pfolson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Dec 2019, 12:46 AM   #11
JeremyNicoll
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfolson View Post
Make sure you have spam filtering turned off in Thunderbird. Mail could be passing through FastMail just fine, then getting sent to the spam folder when it's downloaded by your mail client.
If the Thunderbird involvement is only via POP3 download, then TB won't be able to route anything to any Fastmail folder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfolson View Post
I've found it better to always rely on server-side filtering rather than letting the client get involved.
If you filter on the server but then can't see (in the client) what gets filtered that's hardly helpful.

I think which approach you use depends a lot on whether you're a "leave everything on the server and use IMAP" person, or a "download everything and organise it locally in a client" person. Doing some of each sounds to me like a bad idea.
JeremyNicoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Dec 2019, 01:09 AM   #12
haryo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 106
I only do straight PO3. No IMAP. No T-bird spam filters set. No Fastmail filters, no Fastmail forwarding, Fastmail spam setting turned to 'off'.

I now see another email in the Fastmail web-access spam folder. Once they get there as a result of something I assume Fastmail is doing, there they stay unless I manually move them out.
haryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Dec 2019, 01:27 AM   #13
JeremyNicoll
Essential Contributor
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by haryo View Post
I only do straight PO3. No IMAP. No T-bird spam filters set. No Fastmail filters, no Fastmail forwarding, Fastmail spam setting turned to 'off'.

I now see another email in the Fastmail web-access spam folder. Once they get there as a result of something I assume Fastmail is doing, there they stay unless I manually move them out.
I think you need to raise a support ticket. No-one here can explain how that's happening.
JeremyNicoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Dec 2019, 01:41 AM   #14
haryo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 106
Here is the RAW message, if case anyone can determine why it went to the spam folder. I XXXX out what seemed private.

Return-Path: <xxxx@t-online.de>
Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44])
by sloti3d1t27 (Cyrus 3.1.7-694-gd5bab98-fmstable-20191218v1) with LMTPA;
Wed, 18 Dec 2019 10:22:49 -0500
X-Cyrus-Session-Id: sloti3d1t27-1576682569-3555479-2-6341924749484819690
X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 3.0
X-Spam-known-sender: yes ("Address xxxx@t-online.de in From header is in
addressbook"); in-addressbook; vips ("VIPs")
X-Spam-charsets: plain='us-ascii', html='us-ascii'
X-Resolved-to: xxxx@fastmail.fm
X-Delivered-to: xxxx@fastmail.fm
X-Mail-from: xxxx@t-online.de
Received: from mx5 ([10.202.2.204])
by compute4.internal (LMTPProxy); Wed, 18 Dec 2019 10:22:49 -0500
Received: from mx5.messagingengine.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mailmx.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80CA13C00A4
for <xxxx@fastmail.fm>; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 10:22:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from mx5.messagingengine.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by mx5.messagingengine.com (Authentication Milter) with ESMTP
id 76239FD5CFB;
Wed, 18 Dec 2019 10:22:49 -0500
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; d=messagingengine.com; s=fm1; t=
1576682569; b=JnB7hUamQfrlKF9PbQJbXzeCTsGXXe1XKic1YaiiHSo45HF0wb
wJMh3rKrl6xZ6cjzhjQd/9aZM5C5ST3p3+bH6c2iyH8lbSOCv50r0aXr8cGvFcoK
3VtCmVYgw8vhssZHlfIps6Y/247GtnSmZKuiW1YD49siG9G7vZ9m5esFexciPdrh
7LJlVz1l8JLcmqtMkp10Pjn+wd+zcD2ZGUnWPqPmT9pmjRMkgNYNxn/e6NV1omh1
onogc16le8sPx3JeQeyKBtECde8qbGnrWiZwLj9vWbuKoKSHCv6kzbRpTdRZ0PTE
ciHoycJQYgqzkUvb8liBBU2j+dy3QG+Ty0Rw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=
messagingengine.com; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id
:mime-version:content-type; s=fm1; t=1576682569; bh=jsNRQW/BsPsr
5lb0Zr28QcrQzV8uu+CMfRPldTVZfVQ=; b=dCfebYnvQB4u59cD/RaUCp0E1Lj2
Fk8p1ZWsYdgj/hFVE7dmB03kIzKLlK7g1LFebdb1IbkjDFzDMET8JgQMqteEq7eK
UiZr0v0Atopyx1IqjVDemeM3IrAlGA/XyoMAnMmUbUFsIWM2dFEE5PaOHEm31UwU
yZbccmi5cGCsonXICI7hjJunoohiH70xjssuAYaOpyZmc7HNMRad0Rgli5BnTK65
kQbXa/LA7m4ISiOG/jU2C9bKMPtDE/P2Q+XXyogmNsxOWyNXRkQgevO5qKMYSOLH
PKuXdJISM2bvOXgNmrSAagAuzHcgPbPKEczKo9yMKacs+WE0bAHuIe0fIA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx5.messagingengine.com; arc=none (no signatures found);
dkim=none (no signatures found);
dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none
policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none
(p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p
header.from=t-online.de;
iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=194.25.134.80 (mailout01.t-online.de);
spf=none smtp.mailfrom=xxxx@t-online.de
smtp.helo=mailout01.t-online.de;
x-aligned-from=pass (Address match);
x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mailout01.t-online.de
policy.ptr=mailout01.t-online.de;
x-return-mx=pass header.domain=t-online.de policy.is_org=yes
(MX Records found: mx02.t-online.de,mx03.t-online.de,mx01.t-online.de,mx00.t-online.de);
x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=t-online.de policy.is_org=yes
(MX Records found: mx02.t-online.de,mx03.t-online.de,mx01.t-online.de,mx00.t-online.de);
x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256
smtp.bits=128/128;
x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0
Authentication-Results: mx5.messagingengine.com;
arc=none (no signatures found);
dkim=none (no signatures found);
dmarc=none policy.published-domain-policy=none
policy.applied-disposition=none policy.evaluated-disposition=none
(p=none,d=none,d.eval=none) policy.policy-from=p
header.from=t-online.de;
iprev=pass smtp.remote-ip=194.25.134.80 (mailout01.t-online.de);
spf=none smtp.mailfrom=dxxxxt@t-online.de
smtp.helo=mailout01.t-online.de;
x-aligned-from=pass (Address match);
x-ptr=pass smtp.helo=mailout01.t-online.de
policy.ptr=mailout01.t-online.de;
x-return-mx=pass header.domain=t-online.de policy.is_org=yes
(MX Records found: mx02.t-online.de,mx03.t-online.de,mx01.t-online.de,mx00.t-online.de);
x-return-mx=pass smtp.domain=t-online.de policy.is_org=yes
(MX Records found: mx02.t-online.de,mx03.t-online.de,mx01.t-online.de,mx00.t-online.de);
x-tls=pass smtp.version=TLSv1.2 smtp.cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256
smtp.bits=128/128;
x-vs=clean score=-100 state=0
X-ME-VSCause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrvddtledgjeefucetufdoteggodetrfdotf
fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdggtfgfnhhsuhgsshgtrhhisggvpdfu
rfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnh
htshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufffkfggtgfothesrgdtghepvddtvdenucfh
rhhomhepoeguhhgrrhhmrgiiuhhflhhutghhthesthdqohhnlhhinhgvrdguvgeqnecukf
hppeduleegrddvhedrudefgedrkedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepihhnvghtpeduleegrddvhedr
udefgedrkedtpdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlohhuthdtuddrthdqohhnlhhinhgvrdguvgdpmh
grihhlfhhrohhmpeeoughhrghrmhgriihufhhluhgthhhtsehtqdhonhhlihhnvgdruggv
qecuuffkkgfgpeefjeegfeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedt
X-ME-VSScore: -100
X-ME-VSCategory: clean
Received-SPF: none
(t-online.de: No applicable sender policy available)
receiver=mx5.messagingengine.com;
identity=mailfrom;
envelope-from="xxxx-online.de";
helo=mailout01.t-online.de;
client-ip=194.25.134.80
Received: from mailout01.t-online.de (mailout01.t-online.de [194.25.134.80])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by mx5.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS
for <xxxx@fastmail.fm>; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 10:22:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: from fwd04.aul.t-online.de (fwd04.aul.t-online.de [172.20.26.149])
by mailout01.t-online.de (Postfix) with SMTP id C59A242F0807
for <xxxx@fastmail.fm>; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:22:45 +0100 (CET)
Received: from LAPTOPKD43OIPO (r1Ow-wZDQhVLa+BsOslJ3nP+OKy9-kv1-Nhil88oQxUJL8tsK9JWfzkd5ThSGDsgkt@[79.208.71.214]) by fwd04.t-online.de
with (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted)
esmtp id 1ihb9r-2ncSWm0; Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:22:39 +0100
From: <xxxx@t-online.de>
To: "xxxx" <xxxx@fastmail.fm>
Subject: Test email from xxxx
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 16:22:38 +0100
Message-ID: <000301d5b5b6$fb9af710$f2d0e530$@t-online.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01D5B5BF.5D61A900"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Thread-Index: AdW1tssu+yEDNUcFQSaBXAfxHBZQbQ==
Content-Language: de
X-ID: r1Ow-wZDQhVLa+BsOslJ3nP+OKy9-kv1-Nhil88oQxUJL8tsK9JWfzkd5ThSGDsgkt
X-TOI-MSGID: e1c2e6a7-1b7f-4a4e-88c3-1024d81aa7d4

This is a multipart message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D5B5BF.5D61A900
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear xxxx,



Here my test email. I hope it lands in the normal folder.



xxxx





------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D5B5BF.5D61A900
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" =
xmlns=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" =
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:word" =
xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" =
xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><META =
HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"><meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 =
(filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#0563C1;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:#954F72;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.E-MailFormatvorlage17
{mso-style-typeersonal-compose;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DDE =
link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div class=3DWordSection1><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>xxxx,<o></o></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o>&nbsp;</o></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Here my test email. I hope it lands in the normal =
folder.<o></o></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o>&nbsp;</o></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>In xxxx,<o></o></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o>&nbsp;</o></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>xxxx<o></o></span></p></div></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D5B5BF.5D61A900--
[/size]


[/size]
haryo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 Dec 2019, 04:33 AM   #15
BritTim
The "e" in e-mail
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: mostly in Thailand
Posts: 3,084
Are you sure you only access email through Thunderbird (via POP3) and the FastMail web interface? You do not, for instance, have email set up on your phone?

Based on the example you posted, I can see no reason why the email should have been delivered anywhere but the Inbox unless a sieve script executed. Usually, this kind of behaviour occurs because some client you have forgotten about is accessing your Inbox.

I suggest you take a look at your Access Log and see if there is a device you are not expecting accessing FastMail.
BritTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +9. The time now is 03:26 PM.

 

Copyright EmailDiscussions.com 1998-2022. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy