wipelashing

[alistair234]

Does gmail and runbox get the same wipelashing when their services are down? Same way fastmail is getting write now

[Shelded]

We might think this forum is precisely the wrong forum to post that question to.... but it seems to me the answer to your question is "no"

Fastmail is a pay service and Gmail is not so who would beat it?
Anyway, Gmail stands behind the "beta" defense.

Runbox does get beat up but the user base is smaller and it seems to me the support does not "bait" the way Fastmail does by the level of detail & dialog.

[alistair234]

Originally posted by Shelded
We might think this forum is precisely the wrong forum to post that question to.... but it seems to me the answer to your question is "no"

Fastmail is a pay service and Gmail is not so who would beat it?
Anyway, Gmail stands behind the "beta" defense.

Runbox does get beat up but the user base is smaller and it seems to me the support does not "bait" the way Fastmail does by the level of detail & dialog.

thanks for reply Shelded

[tonyB]

Originally posted by Shelded

Runbox does get beat up but the user base is smaller and it seems to me the support does not "bait" the way Fastmail does by the level of detail & dialog.

Interesting reply. You mean that FM raises expectations, and then sets itself up for complaint by not keeping people up to date?

[wishlish]

Alistair, why do you care that I'm complaining? I don't pay for Gmail. I don't use runbox. I use Fastmail. I even recommended their services to a big corporate client. I like Fastmail a lot, but there's no doubt that they are not handling the outage properly.

I'll give you a better corporate example; when eBay goes down, they keep an updated blog about the problem. It's updated constantly. I don't expect that level of service, but an update every few hours is expected. We're going on 20 hours since the last update. I'm supposed to get "priority" service. I paid for priority service. But I'm getting nothing other than a blog that's not updated and an outdated message on my login page.

Now, I am trying to keep my comments constructive. I'm hoping that when this is all done, Fastmail looks at this board and learns for the next time. I'm not calling anyone names. I'm pointing out what I think the problems are. All you're doing is starting threads complaining about the complaining.

[kastaway]

I have no idea whether those services get the same level of lashing as Fastmail does.

But what "level" is that, anyway? Maybe 30 people on these discussion boards, unhappy with the service?

By your question, I suspect you feel it is somehow unfair. I do not understand that attitude. This is a company providing what is mostly considered a critical communications tool, and charging serious money for it.

Critical tool, serious money. If they do not keep up their end of the deal, then they will get criticized. Seriously.

[Shelded]

Originally posted by tonyB
Interesting reply. You mean that FM raises expectations, and then sets itself up for complaint by not keeping people up to date?

You have the general idea. The blokes here tend to put foot in mouth and often not bother to extract it. Humor never works for them. Read the current blog posts from my mother's POV and tell me what it is supposed to mean to her. They spend time writing what is not appreciated. They avoid writing what is needed.

[Sherry]

Originally posted by tonyB
Interesting reply. You mean that FM raises expectations, and then sets itself up for complaint by not keeping people up to date?

Hmmm, well lets see. I'm guessing that there were, at least, 10/30 times (or more) angry users posting here during the last big outage. Most of them wanted/demanded continual updates to the blog even if they were just "guesses" as to how long it would take. Well, FM obliged by giving "estimates" based on the timing at the time. Like if the disk checking was ¼ done they would estimate the remaining ¾ of the time. The problem with estimates was the "increased" anger when then were not met. It was impossible to know the size of each users mailboxes so if they were smaller in the first ¼ and larger on the second ¼ that would change the estimate for the second ½. Anyway, as new estimates came out the increased anger grew saying "they said it would be up by now so they lied" and other such comments. One example of what increased the estimated time---
A quote by Bron: (this was toward the end of the whole thing)

This crazy person had 180,000 messages in a single folder, and the cyrus replication engine just couldn't cope - the sync_server process on the receiving end was dying midway through the copy. I wound up having to copy the files over by hand and edit the mailboxes database by hand as well - not the most fun job in the world, but luckily our replication engine said it all checks out!

Anyway, I think (and I can't speak for FM) they may have decided to avoid causing that kind of anger and just post when things change. So far I'm thinking nothing has changed since the last update on the blog so there is no reason to post to it yet?

Sherry

[MikeL]

Originally posted by Sherry
Anyway, I think (and I can't speak for FM) they may have decided to avoid causing that kind of anger and just post when things change. So far I'm thinking nothing has changed since the last update on the blog so there is no reason to post to it yet?

Sherry

That's kind of what I've been guessing, though going on 20 hours since the last update is a bit wearing. I guess I'd like to see some comment about how many users have been moved/restored, and how many have not. I'm happy that some people have been, but I am kind of wondering when it will be my turn. I do at least have email currently, because I own my own domain, and have changed the MX records to point to my 1&1 mailbox. However, I also have a backlog in the queue at FM, and I'd like to be able to get at that soon, in case there was some potential employer trying to contact me about an interview or some such.

-Mike

[tonyB]

Originally posted by MikeL
That's kind of what I've been guessing, though going on 20 hours since the last update is a bit wearing. I guess I'd like to see some comment about how many users have been moved/restored, and how many have not.

Yes, this absence of progress reports is actually feeding the anxiety, and, I would suggest, the anger. Shelded raises an interesting question on the nature of the feedback which FM would do very well to consider for the future...

I do feel sorry for the techs, Sherry, but you quoted FM talking about a 'crazy' user with a large folder - if it's not illegal, he has no right to complain about it! I realise this argument can go other ways, so I'll finish by saying that, whilst others may argue the technicalities of this outage, there needs to be something done with the *style* of communications.

[Sherry]

Originally posted by tonyB
I do feel sorry for the techs, Sherry, but you quoted FM talking about a 'crazy' user with a large folder - if it's not illegal, he has no right to complain about it! I realise this argument can go other ways, so I'll finish by saying that, whilst others may argue the technicalities of this outage, there needs to be something done with the *style* of communications.

I only pointed out the user with the large mailbox as an example of something that changed the estimated time...

As for the lack of updates I totally agree with you and others wanting more of that. I would also like to get some idea of the timing. I, personally, liked the estimated and continual blog updates and the forum posts from FM last time, and would this time, but just wanted to point out why, maybe?, they are not doing that this time??? (if not continual then maybe it's time for at least one update now - hopefully)

Sherry

[Sherry]

My own personal update. (I know this won't make you guys feel any better).

My FastCheck just notified me of email into my account so I tried logging in and was able to just now. Naturally I have no idea if I'm in the beginning, middle or toward the end of the line but at least know the process is continuing. The newest email in there is 10-27 and it has no body to it. The older ones are all there and can be read. IMAP is still not available. Only posting all this so you guys know things are happening. I'll give it some time then check back later to see what shows up.

Sherry

[rmns2bseen]

Originally posted by alistair234
Does gmail and runbox get the same wipelashing when their services are down? Same way fastmail is getting write now

If you subscribe to any Gmail mailing lists, you know Gmail gets "whiplashed" all the time for one thing or another. The difference is that Google doesn't really care. Google can afford to lose 10,000 or 20,000 users or more. Losing that many subscribers would be a tough blow for FM, I would imagine.

[ianjohnson_nz]

Originally posted by Sherry
My own personal update. (I know this won't make you guys feel any better).

My FastCheck just notified me of email into my account so I tried logging in and was able to just now. Naturally I have no idea if I'm in the beginning, middle or toward the end of the line but at least know the process is continuing. The newest email in there is 10-27 and it has no body to it. The older ones are all there and can be read. IMAP is still not available. Only posting all this so you guys know things are happening. I'll give it some time then check back later to see what shows up.

Sherry

Me too.Just came back online now. Thanks for posting your message.

Right FM gurus - what now?

Regards, Ian

[darens]

Originally posted by alistair234
Does gmail and runbox get the same wipelashing when their services are down? Same way fastmail is getting write now

Any frequent users of those or similar services want to comment, do they go down for days at a time? I can live with the occasional outage measured in hours.