Runbox - alternative?

[digp]

It seems impossible given all the poor feedback here to consider runbox as a reasonable alternative to fastmail ... views please.

[gmit]

Originally Posted by digp

It seems impossible given all the poor feedback here to consider runbox as a reasonable alternative to fastmail ... views please.

A year and a half ago, I was looking for my new webmail provider and, in a final phase, I was deciding between Runbox and GMail. I decided to go with Runbox since it seemed to have support (GMail doesn't have any) and looked small, flexible and promising.

A year and a half later, I still think this was a cardinal mistake for me. Runbox is slow, unreliable, understaffed and with features stuck in 90ties. Since I'm inert I cannot make another change so soon, so, I guess I'm stuck with Runbox (of course, if they don't kick me out because of comments like this one)... I really do hope I'll be able to change my mind soon.

[Geir]

It's surprising to hear you think Runbox has deteriorated from a year and a half ago -- we have invested quite a bit in new hardware to improve overall performance and reliability since then, and we have more new servers on the way in now.

With regards to functionality, perhaps you could be a bit more specific as to which ones you would like to see improved?

On the top of our list now is full message search (currently in early testing) and an improved address book. We're also considering whether to add calendaring to Runbox, so any input on that would be appreciated.

- Geir

[tomhab]

Calendaring sounds good to me . Points:

1. Must be able to have more than one calendar (no brainer)
2. Synchronise with Google (if only for things like UK Bank holidays)
3. Google must able to sync with it

[gmit]

OK, here are some things:

1. Full message body search, as you've mentioned, along with possibility to mix different search criteria. Having it in beta phase means we won't have it anytime soon, correct?

2. Filters are very hard to maintain. If it's not feasible to do better editing in web browser, it would be nice to have a possibility to export/import it in some editable format (xml?).

3. There is still too much spam ending in inbox. Your system doesn't seem to be able to handle spam that has my email in to: field.

4. Web interface is sluggish (I still use the old one). Sometimes I need to wait for 5-10 seconds for some action to finish. Since I don't have problems with other sites, I'd say the problem isn't my internet connection.

5. About Runbox being unreliable... It's good that you've upgraded hardware, but, all upgrades were done during European working hours, which was unacceptable by me and many others (as I saw here on forum).

6. I'm still clueless how to forward someones mail written in html.

7. There were many problems with attachments. They are possibly solved now since the situation seems better, but, I'm not 100% sure.

[bipbop]

Originally Posted by Geir

With regards to functionality, perhaps you could be a bit more specific as to which ones you would like to see improved?
- Geir

Here's one I asked about long ago which should take you all of a minute to implement:
When the compose window pops up, the To: field should be active.

The other thing you could do, is look at GMail, and how insanely snappy that UI is compared to Runbox'. They use AJAX to pull it off. You may want to look into that. Should lessen the burden on your servers too, if implemented right. Win-win.

[gecko]

Hi,

I am quite happy with the overall reliability. Haven't had any issues so far. But as to what might be improved, I'd highly appreciate to see the advent of some advanced login mechanism. These days, it is absolutely common to log into your email account from anywhere and using one time passwords or a hardware token would provide decent peace of mind that your login credentials will not be logged or phished.

regards
gecko

[bipbop]

Originally Posted by bipbop

Here's one I asked about long ago which should take you all of a minute to implement:
When the compose window pops up, the To: field should be active.

Seriously, Runbox, you can't even fix this little thing?
Unfortunately, GMail is looking more and more attractive from my POV.

Here are the reasons Runbox lists for using a paid email provider:

"Why pay for an email service?"

First section:
"Runbox are real people"
"..personal and tailored support we provide, will benefit your company
"..Runbox takes care of your email, you can focus on running your business.."

I'm a private person, not a company. And so far, while I haven't needed much support, I'm not exactly impressed.

"Runbox is ad free"

Don't care. GMail's aren't exactly intrusive.

"Runbox protects your privacy"

I have nothing to hide, and all mail is snatched by some intelligence agency on its way to the recipient anyway. Unless encryption is used end to end, privacy is out the window.

"Runbox will never use the contents of your messages or other personal data in any other context. Some of the other companies will"

GMail will use the contents for ad serving. Don't care.

"Runbox is value driven.. don't try to 'lock in'.. "

Great, but it's just as easy to migrate from GMail as it is from Runbox, should the need arise.

"We work to decrease our impact on the environment"

So does Google.


Other things to consider:
What company is more likely to be around in, say, 5 years?

Google's webmail is a trillion times faster, because they use AJAX. The user doesn't have to wait to read messages, or do other mail operations. Runbox needs to visibly contact its server for everything, so there's a lot of waiting.

How long is Runbox 5 going to in 'beta'? Even Google has dropped the beta label for GMail.

Google has way more redundancy built into its system. From what I've seen, and what explanations Runbox give when their service is down, redundancy on their part is lacking. Notice that their whole system stops working if one server goes down.

[tomhab]

I don't mean to be picky but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmail#Outages

I am very impressed and envious of gmail's javascript interface though...

[Geir]

Thanks for the feedback -- all duly noted!

gmit: See below for answers to your questions.

1. We're currently setting up a new server that will do message indexing, and once this is done we should be almost ready to start open beta testing. Considering the amount of data we have, we'll probably roll this out gradually on a per user basis where each user activates indexing individually.

2. An improved filter interface is on our list, but it's fairly complicated and involves several different parts of the system so this one will take some time.

3. We have noticed an increased influx of pharma-related spam the past few weeks, and it appears to be botnet generated. This means it's difficult for SpamAssassin to catch it based on IP addresses, and Dspam (the trainable filter) becomes a bit overloaded. We're working to resolve this by upgrading SpamAssassin and running more resource intensive tests. Take a look at this graph for an indication of the amount of spam being sent: http://www.spamcop.net/spamgraph.shtml?spamyear

4. We have a new web server on the way in, which should improve Webmail performance. Response times will however depend on the number of messages in your account, as the web servers have to query the main database to generate message and folder lists.

5. We try to avoid service disruptions during US and European business hours, but all services have downtime now and then in order to perform maintenance or recovery.

6. This is a bug in the new Webmail that we're working to correct.

7. Ok, let us know if you continue to have problems.

- Geir

[Geir]

bipbop: The To field is now focused when the Compose window opens, except on replies.

Naturally it's up to you whether ads, privacy, personal support etc matter in your choice of email provider. And it's true that Google can provide both fast and reliable services, since they have basically cornered the online advertisement market -- yet they still have outages, as pointed out above.

For most people, privacy is (or should be) of great concern, and it is for Runbox. To us, it's important not only how a service is provided, but how the user's interests are protected and treated. We have put considerable effort into balancing our Terms of Service to reflect this, so feel free to compare it with Google's.

Google also has a history of privacy issues that might be of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...Google#Privacy

Regarding technical implementation, Runbox (version 5 Enhanced) does employ AJAX to provide a more immediate and interactive user experience, and we're working on both hardware and software upgrades that will improve this further.

Finally, Runbox has been in business for 10 years (one year less than Google) and we're planning to stay here for a good while.

- Geir

[bipbop]

Originally Posted by Geir

bipbop: The To field is now focused when the Compose window opens, except on replies.

I noticed. Thanks.

Naturally it's up to you whether ads, privacy, personal support etc matter in your choice of email provider. And it's true that Google can provide both fast and reliable services, since they have basically cornered the online advertisement market -- yet they still have outages, as pointed out above.

Sure, but not as many as you. That's understandable though, considering their immense resources.

For most people, privacy is (or should be) of great concern, and it is for Runbox. To us, it's important not only how a service is provided, but how the user's interests are protected and treated. We have put considerable effort into balancing our Terms of Service to reflect this, so feel free to compare it with Google's.

Sure, I like yours better. It's shorter too. Paraphrasing Eric Schmidt, I would say "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, use encryption."

Google also has a history of privacy issues that might be of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critici...Google#Privacy

Yeah, but some of that is because they are located in the US, and have to respect US laws. 1-0 to you. The other thing is of course their other business, ads. That entails massive data mining. Another win for you on the privacy front.

Regarding technical implementation, Runbox (version 5 Enhanced) does employ AJAX to provide a more immediate and interactive user experience, and we're working on both hardware and software upgrades that will improve this further.

That's good. But my experience is that it's slower now than before. After clicking on a mail, there's a waiting period measured in seconds. 4-5 seconds is not unusual. As I said, if you implement AJAX correctly, like Google does, the client would do most of the CPU work. This would free up server resources for you, while making the client experience way better. I'm of course basing this on how snappy GMail is. There are AJAX libraries out there you could use to provide a similar experience.

Finally, Runbox has been in business for 10 years (one year less than Google) and we're planning to stay here for a good while.

That's good. I prefer using Runbox over GMail. But I do expect a better web experience. Oh yeah, skinning would be cool too. A bit tired of the blue scheme.

[AldoRossi]

I've used Runbox for a few years now, but I intend not to renew the service at the end of the paid period I have now. I find the Web interface so drastically poor compared to any other provider I have tried: fastmail, aol, gmail, yahoo, gmx. Each of those beats the crap out of runbox. It comes down to something as trivial as the easily-remembered and catchy domain name that would make me ever entertain the idea of staying with runbox. Too bad. I still hope I will see a sudden merge of runbox with some enterprise willing to pump in some real software engineering expertise into the product and make it competitive. If that doesn't happen and the web interface remains what it is today (Saturday 23 April 2011), then I will work my way out of runbox and it's see ya' later, runbox, in about one year.

[Dreambiz]

The problem is that the nay-sayers (and I see some of the same names over and over again on this forum) speak up loudly while the many happy users (such as myself) are quietly going about our business with smiles on our faces.

Runbox had some growing pains in the early years but has been great in the last few. I'm very happy with the service, especially considering the very stiff competition.

Keep up the excellent work guys (and girls!) and while it's important to take legitimate concerns into account, don't let the *******s get you down!

[robastewart]

Runbox has been my primary email utility for not quite a year. I have Gmail and Hotmail/Live Mail addresses forwarded to a personal domain managed on Runbox, and a few aliases operating on that domain. While some aspects of the Runbox webmail interface are clunky -- and I've written about it on this forum -- even the big dogs have their limitations of one kind or another, including Gmail and Hotmail. It depends what a user is looking for as most important to them in their own experience. As for Runbox webmail, I use it mainly at work, where I check personal mail only once or twice a day, so limitations of the interface are not critical. At home and on the smartphone, I use other IMAP clients to access Runbox, and they work flawlessly with the service. In fact, through onboard clients such as PostBox, I see no difference in functionality between Runbox and other mail services. Lastly, the support team at Runbox is highly responsive and -- kudos to them -- patient and kind to overly harsh and nit-picky criticisms. Admittedly, I've toyed around with finding an alternative service to Runbox -- mostly because I enjoy trying different email services and tools -- but keep finding that Runbox provides everything I need. It's not perfect, but neither am I.