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Old 26 Jan 2021, 01:05 PM   #1
joetrinque
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Question Multiple accounts webmail service?

Hi!
Not exactly sure how to word my question;
In Gmail, and using the Gmail mobile app, a user can have as many accounts as he or she wants (I'm sure there's a limit) and receive push notifications for every account logged into.

Other than gmail, Yahoo mail, and Microsoft emails, which other web-based email accounts supports multiple open accounts free in one app?

I like protonmail however, I cannot be logged in to more than one account at a time on a free subscription.
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Old 27 Jan 2021, 04:57 AM   #2
ioneja
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You got my attention at "free" so apologies if this is not helpful: But there is no such thing as a truly "free" email service. You're either paying for the product, or you ARE the product, or it is a very limited "free" service as a method to get you to subscribe to the paid service, or other marketing upsell approach with sometimes questionable motives. One way or another, nothing is truly "free."

For too many reasons, I can't recommend anything like the three you listed... Microsoft, Google, and Yahoo. One serious reading of their various privacy policies is sobering.

There are plenty of so-called "free" email services that do what you want -- you listed three of the biggest -- but may I suggest that if you haven't looked into it yet, calculate the value of your personal info, and consider one of the many great PAID providers that folks here can recommend, and you'll find they'll be a bargain and do everything you want and more.

Again, apologies if this wasn't helpful! Cheers!
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Old 27 Jan 2021, 01:33 PM   #3
joetrinque
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Smile I agree

I wasn't sure how others here feel about Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft; but my eyes are opening quite quickly, lately, with the information these 3 "big ones" collect info about the user. Far much more than is needed just to show you relevant ads LOL. I'm actually moving away from Google all together. Trying Mapquest, Firefox, deepL translate, apk sites, etc. It's amazing and frightening how much Google are "part" of our lives.

"Free". Well these 3 have ads on their aps and website logins to pay for the "free" which I don't mind. But again, moving away from these info gathering giants.

Which providers would you suggest which would be a paid subscription?
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Old 28 Jan 2021, 12:28 AM   #4
ioneja
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Originally Posted by joetrinque View Post

Which providers would you suggest which would be a paid subscription?
This is definitely a great place to get suggestions. Before I discovered this gem of a forum about 10 years ago, I had similar kinds of questions, and the people here gave me a lot of food for thought and helped me eventually figure out what I really needed. And my needs also changed over the years as I learned more and my personal/work life rolled on.

What I understood right away is that there is no blanket set of suggestions of providers. Like with everything else in life, what works for me may not be the best solution for you.

So in order to give any of my own personal suggestions, I'd want to understand more of what you are trying to do with email. I suggest that anyone who is looking for a new email provider ask themselves these kinds of questions:

1) What features and level of service do I absolutely need?

2) What features would be nice, but not absolutely necessary?

3) What level of privacy policy do I want? And how does that affect #1 and #2?

4) Have I done a basic assessment about the security and encryption features that would be appropriate for my situation or preferences? What are the related issues that matter to me? And again, how does that affect #1 and #2?

5) How much money am I willing to spend?

For items #3 and #4, it may take some good reading and contemplation before you are ready to answer them. I suggest taking a little time and doing your homework so you can make more informed decisions and don't have to switch services all over again.

Once you can confidently answer those questions above, the people here in this forum can probably give you some really great and specific recommendations. There is an email provider for literally every kind of situation, some better or worse for a given set of requirements.

And keep in mind it may also be worth your time to do some testing on your own too. One person's favorite feature is another person's big headache. What looks good on paper may be annoying in day-to-day use. So in addition to having a clear understanding of what you need/want, I suggest you also spend time and consider testing some of your top contenders yourself to see if you even like their services on a day-to-day basis.

Hope that helps a little. At least that would have helped me when I was asking about various email services years ago, instead of getting a whole big list of providers without fully understanding what I really needed at the time. IMO an email service is one of those kinds of providers that is worth spending some time to find the best fit for your needs. Cheers!
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Old 31 Jan 2021, 04:15 PM   #5
joetrinque
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Post Lots of good suggestions

Thanks so much for all your info and advice.

I'd like to ask what you and other members are using for encrypted email service. Have recently read up on the 5-9-14 eyes, too. Wow.

I've searched and researched
Protonmail
Zoho Mail
Tutanota

I like them all from their features. I'm OK with all their price points. I've created a free account with all 3, however, I find all 3 adequate for my privacy needs. Only question is how easy to port my domain.

All their main features are what I'm looking for. I'm a simple emailer. I just want privacy and encryption options.

Every company will have negative reviews from "those people" and is difficult to filter out the real complaints and just the disgruntled users.

Next is trials. Trials doesn't work for me as I would want to use the domain I already own. I don't want to bring over my domain to a server just to move it again next month after a trial. I'd rather be sure I want to stay.

Stability.
Customer Service (Actually reaching someone over email and not a bunch of automated replies or bots).
Great reputation among encryptionists (Is that even a word?).
A working and stable android App available on f-droid or at least playstore and not created by a third party.
I'd rather pay with Paypal. Minimum 1 yr sub. Usually save more for 2 yrs.
Not too concerned with non-email features (Like Zoho Suite, ProtonDrive, etc.).
Migrate function from both Gmail and Yahoo; including contacts.
Storage? Not sure, using 5gig right now in Gmail but I haven't cleaned out my folders in years, LOL. Would clean up before migrating.


So, what do you think of the three companies I listed above? Do you suggest another I did not list? Why do you like it? Is there a thread I missed on avoiding one of the three I listed?

Thanks a lot everyone!
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Old 31 Jan 2021, 09:56 PM   #6
TenFour
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I am not an expert on encrypted email simply because I found that a grand total of 0 of people I regularly correspond with are willing to go through the hoops of also using end-to-end encryption. I briefly tried ProtonMail and found it all worked very well, though email search is a huge problem due to your email being encrypted. With Gmail or Fastmail I can find old emails from 14 years ago in seconds because the entire email message can be searched. Gmail's search is unequaled, and to me that is extremely important. The ProtonMail app works smoothly also. The company seems to be professionally run and there are good help documents, etc. I don't believe Zoho offers end-to-end encryption, so you are comparing apples and oranges. Their email has suffered from delivery problems, and so-so customer service. The price is OK, especially if you need the full office suite that they offer. Tutanota has been plagued by DDoS attacks in recent months, so read up on that issue in some threads here and judge whether or not you think they can overcome those service problems.
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Old 1 Feb 2021, 03:03 AM   #7
joetrinque
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Smile

Thanks Tenfour.
I've been reading about zoho and tutanota as well. It comes down to the fact nothing win be secure for ever.

Sent some questions to Zoho on Tuesday. Just got an reply today asking for more information although my questions were thorough.

Tutanota plainly explains customer service is only available for paid users. Sooooo, if you have any questions before hand, find it on their site and if you can't find it nice on to the next server. Nice. LOL

The search functions is definitely useful.

Thanks for your input. It helps.
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Old 1 Feb 2021, 03:25 AM   #8
TenFour
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By the way, if you mainly want email, a calendar, notes, contacts, and some file storage, I can highly recommend Fastmail. Their help documentation is some of the best in the business, and real people do respond to your questions via email though it often takes 24 hours or more. They are privacy oriented, but not end-to-end encrypted. Frankly, I have argued on here before that end-to-end encryption is really security and privacy theater--the serious players and governments will get your information if they need to. Others disagree. Much more important, IMHO, is using a service that has robust infrastructure and staff to prevent things like DDoS attacks, phishing, spam, malware, and just general breakdowns of the system. Fastmail has proven they have this infrastructure.
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Old 2 Feb 2021, 03:01 AM   #9
ioneja
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Unless Zoho recently launched a new service I haven't heard about yet and also changed owners and jurisdictions and rewrote their privacy policy, then Zoho mail is *not* in the same niche of products as Tutanota and ProtonMail, in terms of privacy, security, encryption, and jurisdiction, so make sure to understand the differences of what the services *actually* provide. Marketing copy makes it seem that Zoho does more than it really does in those areas. I would personally not use Zoho due to their privacy policy and jurisdiction alone for this kind of service, but again, that's a personal preference, and I have nothing against them. Zoho mail has tons of features, a good interface (IMO), a massive ecosystem of additional services, and is a valid direct alternative to the "monopolistic" mega-sized email providers. Just not in the class of highly-secure services with strong privacy policies (as opposed to good marketing copy).

And seriously, just go read their privacy policies. Zoho's privacy policy is a giant piece of well-written swiss cheese crafted by an army of expensive marketing-oriented lawyers compared to Tutanota's and ProtonMail's policies. I always find retention policies particularly revealing. Spend some time in their privacy policies and you'll get a real eye opener. Ultimately, it may not matter to you though, and you might be fine with those kinds of policies. I only bring this up because you mentioned the three services together, and that's like comparing a Granny Smith Apple vs. a Red Delicious Apple vs. a Navel Orange. Guess which one is which? (Sorry for the various food metaphors, fruit, cheese references...)

If you are truly looking for a ProtonMail and Tutanota kind of service, (again, don't be lured by marketing copy -- just figure out what you truly need), there are several other options to consider too, of varying degrees of features and policies, yet I'd still consider them "apples vs apples" in the same class. Of the ones I've tried and/or currently have a subscription with, there are also Posteo, Mailfence, and Mailbox.org to look at. I've tried several others in that general class, but my personal opinion is that those five are solid ones to look at -- ProtonMail, Tutanota, Posteo, Mailfence, and Mailbox.org, each for subtly different reasons, various pros and cons for each. There are other good providers in that "family" I could mention, but those five are a good place to start where I've had the best luck overall, current as of February 2021.

One comment on Tutanota, you might find some old post of mine with criticism and praise back and forth on Tutanota. I've had some ups and downs with them. I had been a big fan of their service (and subscriber) until there was a massive series of DoS and similar attacks against them recently, and I really didn't like the way they handled the situation, they just didn't seem to have the depth of experience and public relations that the ProtonMail team had, IMO, from my external observations only. I think things have calmed down comparatively with Tutanota now and they weathered a big storm, where I'd consider them once again.

Also quick comment on ProtonMail, I am personally not a big fan of some of the business decisions that ProtonMail has made in the past, but that's mainly philosophical, and so leaving that aside, I think their product is definitely worth serious consideration for those who need that kind of encrypted service. Their track record has been pretty solid overall, especially in light of what happened recently with Tutanota.

Another service I like, but don't consider part of the list above, is Kolab Now, but they are missing some security features that are included in ProtonMail and Tutanota, for example. However, I really like Kolab Now's privacy policy and jurisdiction, and their general vibe. They are not quite "apples" though -- some other kind of "hybrid fruit" in my book.

Lastly, I have to mention Hushmail. It shows up on a lot of people's lists of similar services, but I don't consider them part of the "apples" list for these kinds of services. Their privacy policy, jurisdiction, and closed-source approach combine in my book in a way I think is inferior to the other services mentioned, so I tend to recommend those other services first. However, if you don't mind those issues (and some historical controversy BTW), then Hushmail could be a contender. Plenty of people love and trust them, and they might be fine for you. I know doctors and lawyers who trust them every day with very sensitive information. But frankly if you are okay with their kinds of issues, I'd rather point you in the direction of Luxsci instead, which has similar jurisdiction and overlapping features with Hushmail in many key areas, but has *stellar* customer service. But then we're getting into a different kind of product or "fruit", definitely not an apple...

Good luck, and remember that there really isn't anything that is "free" -- so if you are willing to spend money, you'll find some good options above, and I'm sure some other folks here will chime in with good suggestions too! IMO it's worth spending time doing the research!

PS.: Re: @TenFour's comments, have to agree that if the security features, privacy policies, jurisdiction, etc., are actually not an issue to you, then Fastmail is definitely a contender, but again that's an apples vs. oranges discussion, and like TenFour implied, a whole different discussion about privacy in general. Maybe the OP is truly looking for oranges instead of apples? I do like Fastmail, I'm a long-time subscriber, but it's definitely not in the same family as ProtonMail and Tutanota, etc.. And on the other hand, nor can they match some of the features that Fastmail has. But if we're talking Fastmail, then we're opening up a whole different list of providers.

Cheers!

Last edited by ioneja : 2 Feb 2021 at 03:43 AM.
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Old 2 Feb 2021, 04:47 AM   #10
ioneja
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Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
Much more important, IMHO, is using a service that has robust infrastructure and staff to prevent things like DDoS attacks, phishing, spam, malware, and just general breakdowns of the system. Fastmail has proven they have this infrastructure.
BTW, forgot to mention this topic in my reply -- it is very true indeed that all the best features in the world, the best privacy policies/jurisdictions, encryption, etc., etc., don't mean much if the service is down! Leaving all those other important issues aside, which vary in importance for each person in this forum, I can't agree more that very few of the "small" or "mid-range" providers have the kind of experience that Fastmail has. That is one reason why I'm still subscribed with them, even though I strongly dislike their jurisdiction (and I'm disheartened in particular about some of the recent laws being considered or passed in Australia, not to mention that their servers are located in the US), and due to those jurisdiction issues, they have had to succumb to privacy policies I don't like.

But Fastmail has indeed weathered their own storms over the past years, already been slammed by many kinds of attacks, and made it through and improved their infrastructure. They are one of the more robust providers IMO, notwithstanding the occasional issue, and so I do still use them for several domains and have recommended them to friends and family who are merely seeking for a first step into paid email and a better option than the mega-profile "free" services like Google/Gmail.

However, Fastmail is just one of several good ones in this "paid post-Gmail awareness" category, and is definitely *not* in the ProtonMail and Tutanota category. But a lot of people don't really need ProtonMail or Tutanota... and just think they do, or perhaps derive some psychological comfort from having a ProtonMail or Tutanota account. No problem, no criticism of that, but that's why I mentioned in another one of my overly long posts to really figure out what someone needs, since there are so many options out there of every variety. But yes I totally agree that infrastructure and experience in general is a big consideration for any kind of service provider. Plus, I like that Fastmail is employee-owned... and the folks there're I've talked with over the years seem to be decent people... otherwise I would have long ago said goodbye and moved on.

However, since I have different needs for different businesses and projects, and I use a variety of services that match those needs, Fastmail is a good service to hang on to, kind of like a handy swiss army knife of email providers. Covers a lot of situations, but not necessarily the best tool for specific needs. But compared to services like GMail and Outlook, etc., Fastmail is miles apart in what they do with your data, so Fastmail is still a huge upgrade from those "free" mega services.

Last edited by ioneja : 2 Feb 2021 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 2 Feb 2021, 11:57 PM   #11
TenFour
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Quote:
...it is very true indeed that all the best features in the world, the best privacy policies/jurisdictions, encryption, etc., etc., don't mean much if the service is down!
And, if the service is up the most important feature is robust security that protects you from spam, phishing, hacks, malware, etc. I have repeated myself on this forum many times that for me the required characteristics in rough order are: reliability, security, features, cost, and privacy. The problem I see is that many people are confused with the terms privacy and security. For example, Gmail has tremendous security, far above most smaller providers, but might be less private than some. The thing is with Gmail you know basically what the issues are with privacy--they use your information to target advertising at you, making lots of money in the process. With the smaller providers you really have no idea what they are doing with your information. The owner could be reading your email just for kicks and you wouldn't know it. They might be selling certain types of information to the highest bidder or they could be a front for a scam. Really, really hard to tell what is going on, while with the big ones there are so many users that issues like that would become public very quickly.
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Old 3 Feb 2021, 01:39 AM   #12
ioneja
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Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
for me the required characteristics in rough order are: reliability, security, features, cost, and privacy. The problem I see is that many people are confused with the terms privacy and security. For example, Gmail has tremendous security, far above most smaller providers, but might be less private than some. The thing is with Gmail you know basically what the issues are with privacy--they use your information to target advertising at you, making lots of money in the process. With the smaller providers you really have no idea what they are doing with your information. The owner could be reading your email just for kicks and you wouldn't know it. They might be selling certain types of information to the highest bidder or they could be a front for a scam. Really, really hard to tell what is going on, while with the big ones there are so many users that issues like that would become public very quickly.
For security, I also include features like 2FA and how well account security in general works, infrastructure and safeguards, experience of the provider, etc., but for the most part I agree with your comments, and it's very true many people don't understand the differences. Good to differentiate them and spend the time to learn why those differences may be important to you.

My own priorities are a little different than yours, and they change on a project- or domain- basis. Hence why I have so many accounts at different providers and I try to stay on top of new services that (hopefully) meet my needs, and hence why I keep coming to this forum. There is NO service that is universally perfect for me, and I think everyone needs to make these kinds of assessments for themselves of course.

Over the years, my needs have changed a lot too. I would have put reliability and security in my top two slots a few years ago like you, but privacy issues have catapulted to the top for me, right next to security, where I find I have to forgive a little of reliability, for example, to trade up for more privacy. Yes, reliability is super important... can't agree more... but to turn my prior statement in this thread around to another angle, how important is all the reliability in the world if there's no privacy? Obviously the balance of those kinds of questions will be different for each person.

It saddens me that these are issues we have to deal with in society, especially for something as seemingly innocuous as email. Not to change the topic or sound overly dramatic, I do believe that a profound cultural shift has been taking place, and it is becoming increasingly rare to find people who really care about these issues and what they mean for society going forward.

With the emergence (or revelation, depending on how you interpret what's happening) of the mega-profiling providers, the barrage of cross-device linked trackers and fingerprinting of everything from apps to your OS to websites to your shopping to your finances to your politics to your social media to your good old fashioned cell phone number and home address, all intersecting with your email, we are seeing a shift in the boundaries of the concept and value of privacy. This has huge ramifications for just about everything in society. There are big ethical questions that are being regularly dismissed or bypassed or forgotten in the name of some other priority or expedient issue. Then with the invasive, sometimes abusive, and often inconsistent policies (including from ISP, cloud services, government overreach, vast jurisdictional differences, etc.), profound legal issues, poor enforcement and straight up incompetence, mixed with the relentless pace of technology and changing standards with no real ethical framework, it's very easy to just throw your hands up and give up. Or navigate life blissfully ignorant.

And to try to tie this back to the topic in this thread, that's why I really think the only way anyone can fairly recommend services or find the "right" services, is if they take some time to educate themselves and find out what they value most. Prioritizing one's unique needs and preferences is IMO well worth the time. And while one is figuring out what one really needs, they might take the opportunity to think about what they value on a deeper level too, and how there are some profound questions about society to ponder.

And then they can pick an email service that is in alignment with not only what they need, but what they value too.

See, I'm trying to stay on topic! Cheers!
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Old 3 Feb 2021, 04:49 AM   #13
JeremyNicoll
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Originally Posted by joetrinque View Post
Only question is how easy to port my domain.

...

Next is trials. Trials doesn't work for me as I would want to use the domain I already own. I don't want to bring over my domain to a server just to move it again next month after a trial. I'd rather be sure I want to stay.
I have precisely that worry when I consider moving a domain that's currently elsewhere into (maybe) Fastmail. I'm already a FM customer but not using a domain of my own there.

So, I registered a new domain with the same company as the real one I'm thinking about moving. I've had its subdomains etc set up in a similar way. I've not yet done this (becasue real life has got in the way) but I plan to subscribe to a few mail lists etc and have the new (test) domain handle them, setting up similar filtering etc there as I do for the real domain. Then I plan to move the test domain to FM. It doesn't matter at all to me if that doesn't work because the mails it will be processing mean nothing to me. But it will form a decent testbed for the process. Maybe you should do the same?
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Old 3 Feb 2021, 08:19 AM   #14
ioneja
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... and have the new (test) domain handle them, setting up similar filtering etc there as I do for the real domain. Then I plan to move the test domain to FM. It doesn't matter at all to me if that doesn't work because the mails it will be processing mean nothing to me. But it will form a decent testbed for the process.
THIS.

I do the exact same thing for every new service that I test -- I never take a live domain over first with a new service -- always a test domain to see if there are any issues I need to plan for. I've saved myself a lot of headaches over the years. So I second this idea wholeheartedly. The extra cost of a test domain is nothing compared to the headaches you'll save.

In fact, if you test new services often, you might just keep a couple of extra domains in your portfolio just for this kind of testing. I'm about to test a new service this week -- pretty excited about this one actually -- and I'll pull out a trusty test domain first and then once I feel good, I'll bring over a real live domain.
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