Google: your data and your file are ours!?

Agx · 26 Mar 2014, 02:52 AM

I have read the TOS of Google Services and I have read a strange "article" on the TOS:

1) Some of our Services allow you to submit content. You retain ownership of any intellectual property rights that you hold in that content. In short, what belongs to you stays yours.

Ok, my files and my data are mine :-)

But... after this word:

2) When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services.

In conclusion a file hosted, a mail sent with gmail, a document on google drive.... is mine, but google can use it as if the files are propriety of Google?

I don't understand...

A file is mine, but if I use Gmail to send it to a friend... it become of propriety of Google

I have understand very well or not ???

Bamb0 · 18 Apr 2014, 09:24 AM

YES!!

They originally were bravely saying this with thier browser also but changed it. (I still wouldnt use it)

They are quite intrusive and SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED!!

communicant · 19 Apr 2014, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamb0

YES!!

They originally were bravely saying this with thier browser also but changed it. (I still wouldnt use it)

They are quite intrusive and SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED!!

I presume the above post was in reply to Agx's post in which he said:

________________________________
"I don't understand...
A file is mine, but if I use Gmail to send it to a friend... it become of propriety of Google
I have understand very well or not ???"
________________________________

We have been through this before on the forum. (I tried to find the relevant thread but failed. Perhaps someone else will have better luck and could post a link.)

Google is indeed intrusive in many ways, and there may well be good reasons for those who find its policies distasteful to avoid using various Google services, but their TOS does not mean that material sent privately from a Gmail account therefore "becomes the property of Google."

Please, stop frightening people needlessly by repeating this inaccurate interpretation. There are plenty of reasons to dislike and distrust Google and Gmail, but that is simply NOT one of them.

xmailer · 19 Apr 2014, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by communicant

Please, stop frightening people needlessly by repeating this inaccurate interpretation. There are plenty of reasons to dislike and distrust Google and Gmail, but that is simply NOT one of them.

Agreed. Some issues discussed here are somewhat more nuanced than the highly overly simplistic and "back and white" way that some people here (fortunately, usually not many) seem to want to choose couch them in, seemingly for their own personal purpose(s) or agendas. Even believing something "with all one's heart" doesn't make it true no matter how much one may believe it -- especially when offered as here, without even an iota of evidence in support of these mere opinions.

Aimlink · 2 Jul 2014, 10:29 AM

Yeah... What needs clarifying is what Google means when they refer to uploaded 'Content' to their services.

danieldk · 16 Jul 2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agx

I have understand very well or not ???

Some predict doom, others gloom, but the truth is somewhere in the middle.

First of all, you should consider that Google relies heavily on distributed storage (Bigtable, GFS, etc.). So, they will need permission from you to distribute files in their infrastructure. Secondly, unless you are using Google Apps for Business, you get a free product and 'pay' through advertising. It is well known that Google scans e-mails to offer relevant advertising. This also implies that they need permission to use data fairly freely. Finally, they also make their applications more useful by using data across their services. E.g. Google Now can pick up track & trace codes from e-mails and show you when a package arrives. Again, this requires that data should be shared between services.

On the other hand, Google clearly excludes things that they do with your data:

Quote:

The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones.

In other words, they don't give or sell your data to third parties. In this respect they are far better than many other companies. E.g. you give Facebook the right to sell or provide your data to third parties. Also, Google provides Google Dashboard, which makes it easy to view for some products what data they have and to remove it.

They are walking a thin line between extracting data to make better services and have more effective advertising, but protecting the privacy of users enough to make it acceptable to most users. Also, there is no such thing as a free lunch. So, if you don't want your data to be used for targeted advertising, but you like Google products, get a Google Apps for Business account. They are not *that* expensive. And since they are associated with your own domain, you can easily move to another service provider if you are not happy with them.

But have no illusions. If it's free, there is a catch. They'll use your data to make targeted advertising (Google), targeted advertising and selling data (Facebook), or to tie you into a hardware ecosystem (Apple's iCloud). If you want to be the customer, pay for it.

Aimlink · 25 Jul 2014, 07:55 AM

Nicely said danieldk. I agree with all of it.

Tsunami · 26 Jul 2014, 07:54 AM

Yes, but the policies of for example Facebook (not sure about Twitter, if they would sell or collect any data... the short messages are not that worthy for sales purposes and often don't reveal any private content of the sender, usually they're newsfacts being spread) are worse than those of Gmail.

Gmail and Google are no angels, but I rather have a bot scanning my emails for easy-to-ignore ads, rather than giving a social network permission to sell the data they have about me.

To respond to the initial question: you give Google permission to display, use, etc any file you send through Gmail to your friends, without this permission Google could simply not legally transmit the file through their network of servers and direction receiver. In theory this means they can indeed freely use the file for other purposes too, but I have not heard of such examples so far. But one thing is clear: the intellectual property remains with you, even if you send a file through Gmail. They have a license to distribute, display, show, etc the file you attached, but they cannot claim ownership. They do NOT own anything you send or any attachment you send, they only get permission to display and distribute it. Which de facto is used mainly for delivering it to the receiver or display on Google Drive if you wish so. De jure they can indeed display it at many places for many reasons, but I never heard about any such case. And even then, you would still be the owner of the file.

Intellectual property can NOT be transfered to anyone else to my knowledge, and moral property can FOR SURE NEVER be alienated from the creator of a certain work. What you can pass on to someone else, is copyright and the right to reproduce the work and even sell it and make profit from it. But your authorship and the moral rights attached to it are impossible to transfer or be alienated from the creator. Even big powerful multinationals like Google or Facebook cannot ignore this LAW ; hence they ask for that license giving them permission to display and distribute it without Always having to ask permission again each time someone wants to open the file in his email he received or every time someone accesses the file on Google Drive. A license to display and use a file, is not the same at all as owning the rights of property to that same file.

Intellectual property and moral rights stay with you, that license Google is given by your agreement cannot change anything about you staying the owner of the file.

xmailer · 26 Jul 2014, 08:10 AM

Since this is based on a somewhat vague recollection of an option I was offered at some point, I could be wrong, but my impression is/was that Gmail will let a free user opt out of their "targeted" advertising, opting to receive only "generic" advertising instead. If I'm correct, I have no idea offhand how new or old this option is.

Tsunami · 26 Jul 2014, 08:52 AM

One thing you gotta credit Gmail for: their ads are on the side of the screen and not that colourful or otherwise visably distracting from the message. If you don't specifically look at them, you hardly notice the ads are there. I remember the old Hotmail interface, the ads were impossible to ignore due to the colourful distracting images and their size. Gmail's ads are quite easy to ignore because they're not too big, not centrally located on the screen, and not using some bizarre colour combination that distracts attention away from the message.

I'm still no fan of Gmail overall, but the things they're doing fine should be mentioned just like we mention the shortcomings....

26 Mar 2014, 02:52 AM	#1
Agx Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 164	Google: your data and your file are ours!? I have read the TOS of Google Services and I have read a strange "article" on the TOS: 1) Some of our Services allow you to submit content. You retain ownership of any intellectual property rights that you hold in that content. In short, what belongs to you stays yours. Ok, my files and my data are mine :-) But... after this word: 2) When you upload or otherwise submit content to our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones. This license continues even if you stop using our Services (for example, for a business listing you have added to Google Maps). Some Services may offer you ways to access and remove content that has been provided to that Service. Also, in some of our Services, there are terms or settings that narrow the scope of our use of the content submitted in those Services. Make sure you have the necessary rights to grant us this license for any content that you submit to our Services. In conclusion a file hosted, a mail sent with gmail, a document on google drive.... is mine, but google can use it as if the files are propriety of Google? I don't understand... A file is mine, but if I use Gmail to send it to a friend... it become of propriety of Google I have understand very well or not ???

18 Apr 2014, 09:24 AM	#2
Bamb0 Master of the @ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,874	YES!! They originally were bravely saying this with thier browser also but changed it. (I still wouldnt use it) They are quite intrusive and SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED!!

2 Jul 2014, 10:29 AM	#5
Aimlink Master of the @ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Here and Now... Posts: 1,078	Yeah... What needs clarifying is what Google means when they refer to uploaded 'Content' to their services.

25 Jul 2014, 07:55 AM	#7
Aimlink Master of the @ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Here and Now... Posts: 1,078	Nicely said danieldk. I agree with all of it.

26 Jul 2014, 07:54 AM	#8
Tsunami The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown Posts: 2,341	Yes, but the policies of for example Facebook (not sure about Twitter, if they would sell or collect any data... the short messages are not that worthy for sales purposes and often don't reveal any private content of the sender, usually they're newsfacts being spread) are worse than those of Gmail. Gmail and Google are no angels, but I rather have a bot scanning my emails for easy-to-ignore ads, rather than giving a social network permission to sell the data they have about me. To respond to the initial question: you give Google permission to display, use, etc any file you send through Gmail to your friends, without this permission Google could simply not legally transmit the file through their network of servers and direction receiver. In theory this means they can indeed freely use the file for other purposes too, but I have not heard of such examples so far. But one thing is clear: the intellectual property remains with you, even if you send a file through Gmail. They have a license to distribute, display, show, etc the file you attached, but they cannot claim ownership. They do NOT own anything you send or any attachment you send, they only get permission to display and distribute it. Which de facto is used mainly for delivering it to the receiver or display on Google Drive if you wish so. De jure they can indeed display it at many places for many reasons, but I never heard about any such case. And even then, you would still be the owner of the file. Intellectual property can NOT be transfered to anyone else to my knowledge, and moral property can FOR SURE NEVER be alienated from the creator of a certain work. What you can pass on to someone else, is copyright and the right to reproduce the work and even sell it and make profit from it. But your authorship and the moral rights attached to it are impossible to transfer or be alienated from the creator. Even big powerful multinationals like Google or Facebook cannot ignore this LAW ; hence they ask for that license giving them permission to display and distribute it without Always having to ask permission again each time someone wants to open the file in his email he received or every time someone accesses the file on Google Drive. A license to display and use a file, is not the same at all as owning the rights of property to that same file. Intellectual property and moral rights stay with you, that license Google is given by your agreement cannot change anything about you staying the owner of the file.

26 Jul 2014, 08:10 AM	#9
xmailer Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA Posts: 5,485	Since this is based on a somewhat vague recollection of an option I was offered at some point, I could be wrong, but my impression is/was that Gmail will let a free user opt out of their "targeted" advertising, opting to receive only "generic" advertising instead. If I'm correct, I have no idea offhand how new or old this option is.

26 Jul 2014, 08:52 AM	#10
Tsunami The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown Posts: 2,341	One thing you gotta credit Gmail for: their ads are on the side of the screen and not that colourful or otherwise visably distracting from the message. If you don't specifically look at them, you hardly notice the ads are there. I remember the old Hotmail interface, the ads were impossible to ignore due to the colourful distracting images and their size. Gmail's ads are quite easy to ignore because they're not too big, not centrally located on the screen, and not using some bizarre colour combination that distracts attention away from the message. I'm still no fan of Gmail overall, but the things they're doing fine should be mentioned just like we mention the shortcomings....