If i move folders, what happens to the rules?

[watchdis]

hello,

i've had a look on the FAQ and searched the forum and i can't see an obvious answer to this question. i have 160 rules set up to route various emails to different folders. i want to do a big rearrange of all my folders but i'm worried this will break the rules. anyone know what happens when you move folders about? do the rules automatically follow? i'm not looking to rename the folders just rearrange them and the folder/subfolder set up. also, i'm not using the advanced sieve settings, just the ordinary file to folder settings.

thanks
t

[CyberDyne]

Hi watchdis,

I'm now using advanced sieve rules but only a couple of weeks ago when I was using the 'define rules/file into folder' rules, I did much the same as what you're describing.

I'm pretty sure that when I moved folders, the rules were re-written automatically. I can't remember for sure, but I'm 99% that this is what happened.

I can only suggest you try moving one folder up or down by just one level to see what happens although the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it will work smoothly.

[zhak]

Originally Posted by watchdis

...anyone know what happens when you move folders about? do the rules automatically follow?

If when you created the rule, you selected the folder using the drop-down folder list, then yes. If you created an advanced rule where the folder is defined in the text of the rule (see the below example), then no.

Filing Rule:
Message with: Advanced
That: ignore, will change to NA after rule created
The text: header :matches ["subject"] ["*matchthistext*"] { fileinto "INBOX.Test" ; } elsif false
File into folder: does not have any effect, leave at Inbox

[CyberDyne]

Thanks for clarifying this zhak, it's good to know.

[zhak]

A large caveat, watchdis, I assumed you are moving the folders using the FM webmail 'folders' screen.

If you move your folders using an IMAP client, like Thunderbird or Outlook Express, this will break all your filing rules.

[watchdis]

thanks for the answers much appreciated. this forum is still one of the best things about fastmail. so, i used the online screen and went for bust. sadly, the results aren't too promising so far - about three emails i'd expect to be filed are in my inbox. this may be a massive coincidence but i'm doubting it. this may be because i used sieve rules for a while but reverted back to the 'normal' way of organising rules a year or so ago. ah well

[watchdis]

would it make a difference if i did this on the beta server? because i did

[n5bb]

Originally Posted by watchdis

would it make a difference if i did this on the beta server? because i did

The beta login only changes the web email client. There is only one set of rules, which produces one Sieve script. Or you can create your own single custom Sieve script. the http://www.fastmail.fm/beta server login only changes the user interface -- it has absolutely no effect on the rules or Sieve script at this time.

I agree with all of zhak's comments. Changing folders works if you "use the normal features". But it fails if you manually create a Sieve script, Advanced rules, or change folders with an IMAP client. The "normal" rules system doesn't realize that you have changed anything, so can't fix it in that case. This is why these advanced features are made a bit hard to use -- if they were too easy, everyone would get into trouble and not just those who are willing to put some effort into manually experimenting and fixing things when they break.

One other comment about totally custom Sieve scripts: Many features of the Options screen work by modifying the "normal" Sieve script automatically produced by the Rules screen. These features include some Personalites options, spam filtering, filing of messages retrieved by Pop Links, and filing based on Distribution Lists. If you make a custom Sieve script (not an Advanced rule, but a complete alternative custom Sieve script using the link at the bottom of the Rules screen), then you are responsible for maintaining the Sieve script, and making changes to the features I listed does nothing. No errors -- your changes just have no effect. Due to Fastmail adding so many neat features in the last couple of years (such as Personality filing for SMTP from email clients), I stopped using a custom Sieve many months ago and switched to using Advanced rules to add Sieve snippets. The Advanced rules are compatible with normal Options changes, as long as you don't change you folders without manually fixing the Advanced rules.

Bill

[n5bb]

Originally Posted by watchdis

... sadly, the results aren't too promising so far - about three emails i'd expect to be filed are in my inbox. this may be a massive coincidence but i'm doubting it. this may be because i used sieve rules for a while but reverted back to the 'normal' way of organising rules a year or so ago. ah well

Just look at the Options>Define Rules screen:

• If you see Define Rules at the top, you are using "normal" forms-based rules, which automatically create a Sieve script for you (along with the other Options screens, as I described earlier).
• If you see Advanced Rules at the top, you have a custom Sieve script, and many Options screen changes (and folder changes) do nothing or can break these rules. You will not see the Define Rules screen normal features (Reject, File into folders, Forward, Reflect, Show all) until you revert back to the normal rules system using the link on the Advanced Rules screen.
• When you revert from a custom Sieve script back to the normal Rules system using the link at the top, you will be automatically sent an email with the subject "Your old advanced sieve script". This message contains a sieve.txt attachment with your old rules.

Tell us how we can help you diagnose any rules failures.

Bill

[watchdis]

well, at the risk of boring you all with tedious detail, on closer inspection it only broke some of the rules. these were rules related to two specific folders - one for mailing lists related to shopping and one for mailing lists related to job advertisements. i'm not quite sure what makes these folders so special (other folders got moved around and got moved around in hierarchies) but when i looked at the rules screen all these rules pointed to the inbox. this was relatively painless to correct though. curiously, the emails that ended in my inbox in the last few hours weren't related to either of these folders. if the situation continues to be weird over the weekend i'll take it up with support. not complaining though, this would be the second time in a decade to need them

[watchdis]

apologies bill, didn't see you'd replied till after i posted the last message. it's definitely 'normal' rules. off to bed now though so i'll see what's happened in the morning and i'll let you know how i get on

[n5bb]

Originally Posted by watchdis

apologies bill, didn't see you'd replied till after i posted the last message. it's definitely 'normal' rules. off to bed now though so i'll see what's happened in the morning and i'll let you know how i get on

OK. I was posting and editing my posts shortly after you posted, so our comments were crossing, I think. I see it's after 2200 UTC, so it's getting late your you. I'm in Texas, so I'm finishing up a very late lunch at a salad bar right now. I had to move to another booth with a mains (as you say it in the UK) AC line power jack nearby, since my new laptop has a big bright screen and I'm using a cellular wireless access card, so my battery gets drained faster than normal.

I think that there are some things which can get confused when you rename folders, but it has been so long since I last posted about this issue that I have forgotten the details. I'm sure that we can help you here on this forum, since it must be just broken rules. Remember that the rules are executed (in general) in order from the top to the bottom of the Options>Define Rules>Show all tab screen. My guess is that as zhak suggested you have an Advanced rule and the old folder is no longer present. In this case, the Fastmail delivery system will deliver the message to the Inbox.

Bill

[watchdis]

all seems to be working fine and dandy this morning. 6 mails overnight all filed to the correct folders.
thanks for all the support
t