What's missing from new interface

Quilleron · 31 Oct 2012, 05:41 AM

Problem is that we don't realise what we had until it's gone and a lot seems to have disappeared with the new "improved" interface.

Here's a list of stuff that I made a lot of use of that appears to have gone missing. Please add to the list with what you can't find.

INBOX

Sort by size doesn't tell you wether it's showing smallest or largest first
Sort by attachments doesn't exist
Sort by From in Inbox and To in Sent folder
Option to create copies rather than moving when moving to a folder (really useful when creating many similar drafts)
On the fly changing of number of messages displayed
No display of time as well as date
Navigate to messages 150-200 in list
Actions and buttons at top and bottom of list
Many of the actions:

Redirect

Forward as Attachments

Download as Zip

Detach Attached Messages

Delete Permanently

Save Addresses - All, Sender, Recipient

Set Selected - Displayed, all in folder, deselect displayed

MESSAGE

After each message action go to: Next, Previous, N/P Unread, First Last, Folders
Delete and Next/Previous
Message Actions:

Redirect

Delete Pemanantly

Mark IMAP Deleted

Move to folder

COMPOSE

All the options that used to exist at the bottom of the page

Signature

Personality

Priority

Request read receipt

Save copy location

Text actions:

Insert Note

Insert Signature

Text direction

Preview message

Check Spelling

No font and font size selection
No view HTML source

and I haven't even started looking at Adresses, cofigurations etc

**JeffK** · 31 Oct 2012, 05:45 AM

Excellent post Quilleron.

CWW · 31 Oct 2012, 05:46 AM

I too hate the new interface.

I used the "copy" feature frequently. It's gone.

In settings, under "Conversations," the setting "Show every message separately doesn't work.

marianh · 31 Oct 2012, 11:45 AM

Perhaps I can help you find alternatives to some of these to help you get by in the new interface.

You can search for attachments by typing "HASATT" in the search box. This is not a new feature. Similarly, you can search by 'from:' and 'to:' See https://www.fastmail.fm/help/mailbox_searching.html

Several of the message actions you are looking for are under "More" on the message read screen. There's also several new shortcut keys, including one for delete permanently.

Here's how the delete shortcuts work:
'#' => Context-sensitive delete (i.e. permanently if and only if in Trash or Spam or Contacts).
'd' => Move to trash (wherever valid).
'%' => Delete permanently (from any mailbox screen).

Asceai · 31 Oct 2012, 12:31 PM

To me the biggest problem with the new interface is the complete lack of documentation for it coupled with the fact that intuitive commands in the old interface have been replaced with utterly undocumented key combinations and other similarly arcane steps.

Attach from file storage is a good example. It's probably still present (because that's the whole point of file storage and the reason the per file size limit in file storage is the same as the attachment size limit) but I have no clue how to do it. Clicking and dragging from file storage doesn't seem to do the trick (although I wouldn't particularly like doing this anyway.)

I think, at the very least, this rollout should have been put off until you had time to at least write a couple of text files telling us how to do everything in the new interface.

marianh · 31 Oct 2012, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asceai

To me the biggest problem with the new interface is the complete lack of documentation for it coupled with the fact that intuitive commands in the old interface have been replaced with utterly undocumented key combinations and other similarly arcane steps.

I agree with the lack of documentation, and completely understand your frustration there. That's why I'm spending time here trying to help people find their new way around the interface.
In most cases, keyboard shortcuts are discoverable by mousing over the associated button. There are a few cases where this is not so (such as searching for a folder name, deleting permanently in some cases, and auto-formatting plain text).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asceai

Attach from file storage is a good example. It's probably still present (because that's the whole point of file storage and the reason the per file size limit in file storage is the same as the attachment size limit) but I have no clue how to do it. Clicking and dragging from file storage doesn't seem to do the trick (although I wouldn't particularly like doing this anyway.)

I think, at the very least, this rollout should have been put off until you had time to at least write a couple of text files telling us how to do everything in the new interface.

You won't find attach from file storage in there at the moment. We do take note of those features you want to see brought across to the new interface, and as such I've done that for yours now.

**Shelded** · 31 Oct 2012, 12:48 PM

Quilleron lists 33 items
marianh remedies about 5 of them
At that rate I remain unimpressed with this beta-released-too-early. Poor marianh, having to wade into this messy release. I hope it's a job you're paid for.

Is there something inherently dumb about exploring with your mouse to find a keyboard shortcut??! We used to hit a keyboard stroke to expose that list! That was in the OLD OLD interface, two before the CLASSIC one.

**JeffK** · 31 Oct 2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

...
Is there something inherently dumb about exploring with your mouse to find a keyboard shortcut??! ...

I got a chuckle out of that one.

marianh · 31 Oct 2012, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

Quilleron lists 33 items
marianh remedies about 5 of them
At that rate I remain unimpressed with this beta-released-too-early. Poor marianh, having to wade into this messy release. I hope it's a job you're paid for.

Many concepts that held true in the classic interface no longer do in the new, and as such it's not feasible for me to go through and list the rationale behind each and every change compared to the old interface list in this thread.

Having said that though, there are definitely areas where feedback will be taken in to account, which is one of the reasons I'm here, and taking note of each and every person's responses. We realise that the current state of the new interface will not fit each and every use case for each and every user. Thus I will do my best to help you find your way around it, and take note of what you miss the most if it is indeed missing, so we can be sure to have it move up our priority list. There will inevitably be differences between the classic and new interfaces - what we are trying to ascertain is what you most need that is missing, not just a list of differences.

Regarding wading through the feedback - my job is QA (quality assurance), and I do work for Fastmail. So I'm not just doing this in my spare time

Having said that, my top priority in being here right now is to help. No one is demanding myself or my colleagues to be present here in EMD, that's our choice.

**JeffK** · 31 Oct 2012, 01:36 PM

Thanks Marian, for taking the time and trouble to initiate action on Fastmail users' issues with the alternative new interface.

(Aha QA heh; then Opera would have a procedure for change management of a product including a communication plan component - just saying ;-))

**Shelded** · 31 Oct 2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Many concepts that held true in the classic interface no longer do in the new, and as such it's not feasible for me to go through and list the rationale behind each and every change compared to the old interface list in this thread

It's just as infeasible for users to document all the shortcomings in this interface and provide feedback. It's just too far removed from anything I give a rip about anymore, with so many features removed or buried on option screens. General silence does not imply success, it's resignation.

It's all I can tolerate now to use the Classic interface, most the time I will use my phone or Windows Live Mail.

By the way, using FM on a smart phone browser used to be fairly decent. The Classic interface wrecked that. Now there's no OLD interface so I am stuck using Android mail, which is bad bad.

too_much_study · 31 Oct 2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

Now there's no OLD interface so I am stuck using Android mail, which is bad bad.

Any reason why you don't use K9 Mail through IMAP. Pretty decent android email app.

NJSS · 31 Oct 2012, 03:49 PM

I'm using K9 mail, and have been doing so, on two different devices, for a long time.

Since the change on 30th October, it doesn't work as well as it used to. All folders (60+) were "push", but now the majority have lost their settings & are being polled.

I am going to have to reinstall - a task I'm putting off at present.

Edited to add:- Worked for a while on setings, and all appears to be back to normal. I believe the problems were related to the changes to FM on 30th but can't prove it. All's well that ends well.

NJSS

JohnMike · 31 Oct 2012, 04:36 PM

Thank you Quilleron. In my correspondence with Johan Borg and Lars Boilesen I have be imploring Opera to issue an official list of everything that has been omitted from the new interface.

Thus far I have had no response on this issue.

As I have said in various previous posts having a classic interface is really neither here nor there. I should think that most of us here are pretty clued in and know full well that classic means unsupported and means will be dropped at some time in the future when all those annoying users give up and go away.

So for me the absolutely essential goal of the current forum discussion is to get a statement form Opera detailing the reasons why these key features that made FM what FM was have been dropped and what plan exists, if any, to restore these features to the new interface.

If we can illicit a little honesty from Opera and establish, as I think from various posts herein are hinting at, that there is no intention to restore these features and that there is a hidden agenda here. Then great we know where we stand and either decide to stick with the inferior service. Or attempt to find something else.

There is quite obviously huge wealth of talent in these forums. I am quite sure that if a few bright people got together we could have a feature rich sensible and fast e mail system up and running in a month or so with all the features we know and love and which make perfect common sense.

A wise person once said to me, after I had rather spectacularly messed up, "that's what you call experience and there is nothing in this world more expensive than experience".

Well if Opera want to chuck away the vast wealth of experience represented by the finely tuned features of fastmail that have evolved with the system over the past decade or so then more fool them. And what a great opportunity for some one else.

mephistodan · 31 Oct 2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marianh

Many concepts that held true in the classic interface no longer do in the new, and as such it's not feasible for me to go through and list the rationale behind each and every change compared to the old interface list in this thread.

Having said that though, there are definitely areas where feedback will be taken in to account, which is one of the reasons I'm here, and taking note of each and every person's responses. We realise that the current state of the new interface will not fit each and every use case for each and every user. Thus I will do my best to help you find your way around it, and take note of what you miss the most if it is indeed missing, so we can be sure to have it move up our priority list. There will inevitably be differences between the classic and new interfaces - what we are trying to ascertain is what you most need that is missing, not just a list of differences.

Regarding wading through the feedback - my job is QA (quality assurance), and I do work for Fastmail. So I'm not just doing this in my spare time

Having said that, my top priority in being here right now is to help. No one is demanding myself or my colleagues to be present here in EMD, that's our choice.

Hi Marianh, there's a thread that I'm trying to consolidate all issues in and it includes missing features from this thread too:

http://www.emaildiscussions.com/showthread.php?t=65511

I find it really weird to remind us that you don't 'have' to be on EMD and that it's a personal choice you are doing to 'help'. It makes my blood boil even more than the whole fiasco that happened yesterday.

31 Oct 2012, 05:41 AM	#1
Quilleron Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 36	What's missing from new interface Problem is that we don't realise what we had until it's gone and a lot seems to have disappeared with the new "improved" interface. Here's a list of stuff that I made a lot of use of that appears to have gone missing. Please add to the list with what you can't find. INBOX Sort by size doesn't tell you wether it's showing smallest or largest first Sort by attachments doesn't exist Sort by From in Inbox and To in Sent folder Option to create copies rather than moving when moving to a folder (really useful when creating many similar drafts) On the fly changing of number of messages displayed No display of time as well as date Navigate to messages 150-200 in list Actions and buttons at top and bottom of list Many of the actions: Redirect Forward as Attachments Download as Zip Detach Attached Messages Delete Permanently Save Addresses - All, Sender, Recipient Set Selected - Displayed, all in folder, deselect displayed MESSAGE After each message action go to: Next, Previous, N/P Unread, First Last, Folders Delete and Next/Previous Message Actions: Redirect Delete Pemanantly Mark IMAP Deleted Move to folder COMPOSE All the options that used to exist at the bottom of the page Signature Personality Priority Request read receipt Save copy location Text actions: Insert Note Insert Signature Text direction Preview message Check Spelling No font and font size selection No view HTML source and I haven't even started looking at Adresses, cofigurations etc

31 Oct 2012, 05:46 AM	#3
CWW Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 3	PLEASE bring back the old interface I too hate the new interface. I used the "copy" feature frequently. It's gone. In settings, under "Conversations," the setting "Show every message separately doesn't work.

31 Oct 2012, 12:48 PM	#7
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,849	Just a quick tally here Quilleron lists 33 items marianh remedies about 5 of them At that rate I remain unimpressed with this beta-released-too-early. Poor marianh, having to wade into this messy release. I hope it's a job you're paid for. Is there something inherently dumb about exploring with your mouse to find a keyboard shortcut??! We used to hit a keyboard stroke to expose that list! That was in the OLD OLD interface, two before the CLASSIC one.

31 Oct 2012, 03:49 PM	#13
NJSS Master of the @ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,238	I'm using K9 mail, and have been doing so, on two different devices, for a long time. Since the change on 30th October, it doesn't work as well as it used to. All folders (60+) were "push", but now the majority have lost their settings & are being polled. I am going to have to reinstall - a task I'm putting off at present. Edited to add:- Worked for a while on setings, and all appears to be back to normal. I believe the problems were related to the changes to FM on 30th but can't prove it. All's well that ends well. NJSS Last edited by NJSS : 1 Nov 2012 at 12:46 AM. Reason: Update

31 Oct 2012, 05:45 AM	#2
JeffK Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kingaroy, AU Posts: 3,177	Excellent post Quilleron.

31 Oct 2012, 11:45 AM	#4
marianh Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 78 Representative of: Fastmail.fm	Perhaps I can help you find alternatives to some of these to help you get by in the new interface. You can search for attachments by typing "HASATT" in the search box. This is not a new feature. Similarly, you can search by 'from:' and 'to:' See https://www.fastmail.fm/help/mailbox_searching.html Several of the message actions you are looking for are under "More" on the message read screen. There's also several new shortcut keys, including one for delete permanently. Here's how the delete shortcuts work: '#' => Context-sensitive delete (i.e. permanently if and only if in Trash or Spam or Contacts). 'd' => Move to trash (wherever valid). '%' => Delete permanently (from any mailbox screen).

31 Oct 2012, 12:31 PM	#5
Asceai Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1	To me the biggest problem with the new interface is the complete lack of documentation for it coupled with the fact that intuitive commands in the old interface have been replaced with utterly undocumented key combinations and other similarly arcane steps. Attach from file storage is a good example. It's probably still present (because that's the whole point of file storage and the reason the per file size limit in file storage is the same as the attachment size limit) but I have no clue how to do it. Clicking and dragging from file storage doesn't seem to do the trick (although I wouldn't particularly like doing this anyway.) I think, at the very least, this rollout should have been put off until you had time to at least write a couple of text files telling us how to do everything in the new interface.

31 Oct 2012, 01:36 PM	#10
JeffK Moderator Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Kingaroy, AU Posts: 3,177	Thanks Marian, for taking the time and trouble to initiate action on Fastmail users' issues with the alternative new interface. (Aha QA heh; then Opera would have a procedure for change management of a product including a communication plan component - just saying ;-))

31 Oct 2012, 04:36 PM	#14
JohnMike Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 78	Thank you Quilleron. In my correspondence with Johan Borg and Lars Boilesen I have be imploring Opera to issue an official list of everything that has been omitted from the new interface. Thus far I have had no response on this issue. As I have said in various previous posts having a classic interface is really neither here nor there. I should think that most of us here are pretty clued in and know full well that classic means unsupported and means will be dropped at some time in the future when all those annoying users give up and go away. So for me the absolutely essential goal of the current forum discussion is to get a statement form Opera detailing the reasons why these key features that made FM what FM was have been dropped and what plan exists, if any, to restore these features to the new interface. If we can illicit a little honesty from Opera and establish, as I think from various posts herein are hinting at, that there is no intention to restore these features and that there is a hidden agenda here. Then great we know where we stand and either decide to stick with the inferior service. Or attempt to find something else. There is quite obviously huge wealth of talent in these forums. I am quite sure that if a few bright people got together we could have a feature rich sensible and fast e mail system up and running in a month or so with all the features we know and love and which make perfect common sense. A wise person once said to me, after I had rather spectacularly messed up, "that's what you call experience and there is nothing in this world more expensive than experience". Well if Opera want to chuck away the vast wealth of experience represented by the finely tuned features of fastmail that have evolved with the system over the past decade or so then more fool them. And what a great opportunity for some one else.