Is there a lawyer in the house?

JohnMike · 1 Nov 2012, 01:22 AM

My efforts to communicate with Opera have been unsatisfactory.

It is quite clear that the classic interface is not the system we had two days ago.

It is quite clear that the new UI does not incorporate the features we have paid for.

We don't know because Opera won't tell us:

What the complete list of removed functions is.
Why the features were removed.
What features (if any) will eventually get put back in the new UI.
What is the future of the 'classic' interface. Classic says to me, not support will be dropped in the near future. I am not inclined to pay for an unsupported system.

Therefore we have to assume the worst. I.e. That Opera will retain the new UI minus the features we have come to rely on and temporarily retain an unsupported classic UI which is a vague approximation to the system for which we signed up for and have paid for.

Question:

Are Opera in breach of contract?

If so what remedies exist?

The ideal is obviously to back out the change and have a serious review and announce all changes proposed before attempting to roll fwd again. Could such a back out be demanded and if so on what grounds.

Failing that can we get our premiums paid to date refunded?

The much much bigger issue however is the colossal cost of moving e mail services elsewhere. I have been sitting here trying to get my head around what this would involve and you suddenly realise that even for a piddling little user like me the effort is going to be significant, time consuming and therefore expensive.

Given the circumstances of the a distressed move could we claim our costs back from Opera.

Reading the numerous posts I realise that users have been left seriously in the black stuff because of this change.

Fortunately I am not in this category. I am however not pleased and would like to consider what actions may be open to users.

Hopefully amongst all those bright people out there someone can give a qualified view.

zidium · 1 Nov 2012, 05:04 AM

I just renewed my *Family* accounts on October 22.

Man, I feel like a jacka**! IF this had occurred just ONE DAY before I was to renew, I wouldn't have.

I want to find an alternative so quickly.

I require so many features not present, particularly, the ability to add a user to address book from the email message, so as to keep them from going to spam automatically.

Soseth · 1 Nov 2012, 07:17 AM

What has been changed can theoretically be changed back.

I love change, but not this kind - for reasons laid out by JohnMIke above...

Possibly those of us who want the Old Interface (not the 'supposedly' Old Interface which has been offered) should group together and get a list of names to send to those Operaticians in Power.

Also: I use emails for 'emailing messages' NOT for 'conversations' and the last interface that went under the name of 'Fastmail' (RIP) was perfect to my needs. If enough of us want it back, we'll get it.

I smell centralisation, dumbing down and corporate dross in the air.

Are there other email servers who provide what Fastmail (RIP) used to offer?

tellstar · 1 Nov 2012, 07:29 AM

"Conversations" is terminology for idiots. How can a single message be a conversation? If I am deleting a message, and it says I am deleting a conversation, how do I know how many messages are going with it. A bloody mess!

hobbes · 1 Nov 2012, 07:05 PM

Don't be an idiot. There's no basis for a legal challenge whatsoever.

I don't like the interface as much as the next guy, but get a grip.

JohnMike · 1 Nov 2012, 07:23 PM

Well you may well be right. I don't necessarily think I am a complete idiot for asking the question however.

Some people have big investments of time money and effort here and I am sure that many others are thinking the same thing and trying to assess what to do.

Personally I feel a little bit like I have been caught in a trap. To be honest I simply do not have the financial resource at hand to deal with a change of e mail address right now even if I wanted to.

I didn't invite this change at this juncture, I don't feel that it is entirely unreasonable to look for some financial assistance to deal with getting out should this prove necessary.

If I was in different circumstances perhaps the question would not arise. But I am not.

ChinaLamb · 1 Nov 2012, 11:09 PM

The beta interface has been available for quite some time. I hardly think any lawyer would give you even a second's time discussing this. Well, that is, unless you are paying for his time, then he'll listen all you want.

/cl

mephistodan · 2 Nov 2012, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hobbes

Don't be an idiot. There's no basis for a legal challenge whatsoever.

I don't like the interface as much as the next guy, but get a grip.

What about sharing our data without warning or consent?

NickRem · 2 Nov 2012, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mephistodan

What about sharing our data without warning or consent?

Sharing of data? Where? How?

oslostock · 2 Nov 2012, 02:45 AM

@ JohnMike,

Your *question* is perfectly reasonable -- please disregard the odd insults thrown in your direction.

Personally, I paid recently to renew for a previously solid and reliable service that has, in the last few days, somehow deteriorated to the point where it does not resemble what could be reasonably expected at the time of payment: I can't even read e-mail on my laptop now.

Fortunately, I paid by credit card, and the payment is between me and the credit card company. I do hope that fastmail (or 0pera) manages to undo the recent self-inflicted damage to their service. If not, it's a call to the credit card company to report (in the region I live) a material breach of contract.

Mouse45 · 2 Nov 2012, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oslostock

@ JohnMike,

Your *question* is perfectly reasonable -- please disregard the odd insults thrown in your direction.

Personally, I paid recently to renew for a previously solid and reliable service that has, in the last few days, somehow deteriorated to the point where it does not resemble what could be reasonably expected at the time of payment: I can't even read e-mail on my laptop now.

Fortunately, I paid by credit card, and the payment is between me and the credit card company. I do hope that fastmail (or 0pera) manages to undo the recent self-inflicted damage to their service. If not, it's a call to the credit card company to report (in the region I live) a material breach of contract.

Oslostock thank you for your opinion. and no JohnMike you are not being idiotic in trying to think of getting some financial help from Opera. Seems to me the only idiotic attitudes here are from certain quarters believing that Opera can do no wrong.
I and I suspect many others feel the same way about all this.
As a matter of interest I have just spoken to my card provider and they seem quite confident that a refund of my recent 30th Sept payment would not be a problem due to a material change in the terms of service here. I suggest that if you don't like what has been imposed on you that you ask your card provider the same question that I have and then vote with your feet as I will as soon as I get an alternative sorted out.

oslostock · 2 Nov 2012, 04:19 AM

Good on you Mouse45 for checking this out in your own case.

Personally, I'll be waiting a while longer to see if fastmail/0pera can undo this mess before obtaining a refund. They used to provide (fastmail) a great service... let's give them some breathing space to correct the recent set of... well, issues.

Then again, being generally cynical of how most listed companies operate, it's possible that they will expect that the majority of customers will not be aware that this avenue of refund is open and quite easy to pursue in certain circumstances.

Hence my posts.

Mouse45 · 2 Nov 2012, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oslostock

Good on you Mouse45 for checking this out in your own case.

Personally, I'll be waiting a while longer to see if fastmail/0pera can undo this mess before obtaining a refund. They used to provide (fastmail) a great service... let's give them some breathing space to correct the recent set of... well, issues.

Then again, being generally cynical of how most listed companies operate, it's possible that they will expect that the majority of customers will not be aware that this avenue of refund is open and quite easy to pursue in certain circumstances.

Hence my posts.

I do understand your view and I would like to do the same.

What I cannot get over however is that my trust in the Company these last 4-5 years has been smashed completely.

Once trust has gone there is nothing left.

Anybody can have a poke at me but they will not get a chance to have a second go.

montmorencyfm · 2 Nov 2012, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinaLamb

The beta interface has been available for quite some time.

Has it? I use fastmail most days, and I didn't notice any information inviting its use, but I must admit, I may have missed it.

(I only used to look at this forum very occasionally though, so if it was only mentioned on here, and not on the login page of FM itself, then that explains it).

Quilleron · 2 Nov 2012, 05:44 AM

I'm with you JohnMike - I'd like to see a Class Action for breach of contract.

We now no longer have the product we were sold and for many of us it is not fit for purpose.
And they could probably also be had for dereliction of duty in terms of the way in which they went about the whole thing. To suddenly spring such extreme change on an unsuspecting customer base was well out of order.

The time we've all spent trying to work out what has and hasn't been lost should at least be claimed.

1 Nov 2012, 01:22 AM	#1
JohnMike Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 78	Is there a lawyer in the house? My efforts to communicate with Opera have been unsatisfactory. It is quite clear that the classic interface is not the system we had two days ago. It is quite clear that the new UI does not incorporate the features we have paid for. We don't know because Opera won't tell us: What the complete list of removed functions is. Why the features were removed. What features (if any) will eventually get put back in the new UI. What is the future of the 'classic' interface. Classic says to me, not support will be dropped in the near future. I am not inclined to pay for an unsupported system. Therefore we have to assume the worst. I.e. That Opera will retain the new UI minus the features we have come to rely on and temporarily retain an unsupported classic UI which is a vague approximation to the system for which we signed up for and have paid for. Question: Are Opera in breach of contract? If so what remedies exist? The ideal is obviously to back out the change and have a serious review and announce all changes proposed before attempting to roll fwd again. Could such a back out be demanded and if so on what grounds. Failing that can we get our premiums paid to date refunded? The much much bigger issue however is the colossal cost of moving e mail services elsewhere. I have been sitting here trying to get my head around what this would involve and you suddenly realise that even for a piddling little user like me the effort is going to be significant, time consuming and therefore expensive. Given the circumstances of the a distressed move could we claim our costs back from Opera. Reading the numerous posts I realise that users have been left seriously in the black stuff because of this change. Fortunately I am not in this category. I am however not pleased and would like to consider what actions may be open to users. Hopefully amongst all those bright people out there someone can give a qualified view.

1 Nov 2012, 05:04 AM	#2
zidium Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	I just renewed! I just renewed my Family accounts on October 22. Man, I feel like a jacka**! IF this had occurred just ONE DAY before I was to renew, I wouldn't have. I want to find an alternative so quickly. I require so many features not present, particularly, the ability to add a user to address book from the email message, so as to keep them from going to spam automatically.

1 Nov 2012, 07:23 PM	#6
JohnMike Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 78	hobbes Well you may well be right. I don't necessarily think I am a complete idiot for asking the question however. Some people have big investments of time money and effort here and I am sure that many others are thinking the same thing and trying to assess what to do. Personally I feel a little bit like I have been caught in a trap. To be honest I simply do not have the financial resource at hand to deal with a change of e mail address right now even if I wanted to. I didn't invite this change at this juncture, I don't feel that it is entirely unreasonable to look for some financial assistance to deal with getting out should this prove necessary. If I was in different circumstances perhaps the question would not arise. But I am not.

2 Nov 2012, 02:45 AM	#10
oslostock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 14	Ianal @ JohnMike, Your question is perfectly reasonable -- please disregard the odd insults thrown in your direction. Personally, I paid recently to renew for a previously solid and reliable service that has, in the last few days, somehow deteriorated to the point where it does not resemble what could be reasonably expected at the time of payment: I can't even read e-mail on my laptop now. Fortunately, I paid by credit card, and the payment is between me and the credit card company. I do hope that fastmail (or 0pera) manages to undo the recent self-inflicted damage to their service. If not, it's a call to the credit card company to report (in the region I live) a material breach of contract.

1 Nov 2012, 07:17 AM	#3
Soseth Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 21	What has been changed can theoretically be changed back. I love change, but not this kind - for reasons laid out by JohnMIke above... Possibly those of us who want the Old Interface (not the 'supposedly' Old Interface which has been offered) should group together and get a list of names to send to those Operaticians in Power. Also: I use emails for 'emailing messages' NOT for 'conversations' and the last interface that went under the name of 'Fastmail' (RIP) was perfect to my needs. If enough of us want it back, we'll get it. I smell centralisation, dumbing down and corporate dross in the air. Are there other email servers who provide what Fastmail (RIP) used to offer?

1 Nov 2012, 07:29 AM	#4
tellstar Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 36	"Conversations" is terminology for idiots. How can a single message be a conversation? If I am deleting a message, and it says I am deleting a conversation, how do I know how many messages are going with it. A bloody mess!

1 Nov 2012, 07:05 PM	#5
hobbes Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: UK Posts: 463	Don't be an idiot. There's no basis for a legal challenge whatsoever. I don't like the interface as much as the next guy, but get a grip.

1 Nov 2012, 11:09 PM	#7
ChinaLamb The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: a virtually impossible but finitely improbable position Posts: 2,320	The beta interface has been available for quite some time. I hardly think any lawyer would give you even a second's time discussing this. Well, that is, unless you are paying for his time, then he'll listen all you want. /cl

2 Nov 2012, 04:19 AM	#12
oslostock Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 14	Good on you Mouse45 for checking this out in your own case. Personally, I'll be waiting a while longer to see if fastmail/0pera can undo this mess before obtaining a refund. They used to provide (fastmail) a great service... let's give them some breathing space to correct the recent set of... well, issues. Then again, being generally cynical of how most listed companies operate, it's possible that they will expect that the majority of customers will not be aware that this avenue of refund is open and quite easy to pursue in certain circumstances. Hence my posts.

2 Nov 2012, 05:44 AM	#15
Quilleron Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 36	I'm with you JohnMike - I'd like to see a Class Action for breach of contract. We now no longer have the product we were sold and for many of us it is not fit for purpose. And they could probably also be had for dereliction of duty in terms of the way in which they went about the whole thing. To suddenly spring such extreme change on an unsuspecting customer base was well out of order. The time we've all spent trying to work out what has and hasn't been lost should at least be claimed.