Skiff mail encrypted and simple? - Page 2

TenFour · 1 Feb 2023, 11:13 PM

Skiff's "crypto native" pitch turns me off. Not wild about services that want to attract scammers, tax cheats, and crooks.

ioneja · 1 Feb 2023, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

Skiff's "crypto native" pitch turns me off. Not wild about services that want to attract scammers, tax cheats, and crooks.

Where's the big "crypto native" pitch? Doesn't mention crypto very much. It looks to me that it's primarily a "security and privacy" pitch.

Skiff is open source, end-to-end encrypted and is pushing "privacy and productivity" with their marketing. They push pro and business subscriptions, and even have partnerships for startups and nonprofits. Doesn't sound like a crypto push to me.

And if you read their Acceptable Use Policy and TOS, you'll find that if anything, they are extremely strict about their policies and don't tolerate illegal activity.

And no matter what you feel about crypto, that's most likely a very small number of users on Skiff, and I'd bet the bad apples would prefer to use services outside the US jurisdiction anyway.

TenFour · 2 Feb 2023, 12:11 AM

You're right, they have toned down their "crypto native" language a lot and seem to be trying to compete more with Protonmail than anyone now.

From their website:

Quote:

We at Skiff are a privacy-first, end-to-end encrypted workspace for email, communication, collaboration, and more. our products keep your notes, files, and email private only to you - like Zcash shielded addresses or transactions on Monero. We currently accept crypto payments.

https://skiff.com/blog/zcash-monero-private-crypto

ioneja · 2 Feb 2023, 12:38 AM

Agreed, they are targeting Proton more than anything IMO. And that blog post you quoted from is just one entry about crypto in a long list of non-crypto posts. Most of their blog centers on privacy, safety, security, productivity, tips, updates to their apps, etc... very little about crypto. So I really think it's a minor part of their messaging and brand.

This blog post cracks me up: https://skiff.com/blog/private-email

They go through and make a case for basically the way they do encryption, and then generously list three competitors, Proton, Tutanota, and Mailfence, BUT then point out drawbacks of those services. Ironically, some of the drawbacks they list of those other services are literally the exact same drawbacks of Skiff.

But at least they do point out their three biggest competitors. So we know who they are studying when they are working on their roadmap.

In any case, what they also do well in blog posts like that is make a compelling case for privacy and provide good explanations. So I do appreciate their efforts in making a big play in the market, even with their drawbacks. The more people who understand the issues and search for solutions, the better IMO. Aggressive, well-funded competition from them will make the whole market better too.

webecedarian · 2 Feb 2023, 08:10 AM

I'm wondering, as usual, about an inactivity limit. I didn't see any mention of it.

Anyone?

TenFour · 2 Feb 2023, 09:13 PM

Quote:

There is no account deletion on Skiff currently.

From this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Skiff/comme...u4/inactivity/

Of course, "currently" seems to indicate there could be account deletion for inactivity in the future. One thing I do to keep accounts active is have some newsletter or some account that regularly generates email go to an account that is then forwarded to my main email account. Of course that assumes the email provides free forwarding, which many do. In any case, it is probably a good idea to visit any email account at least once a year to make sure everything is set up and working properly. When I do that with secondary accounts I often find that something has changed in my absence.

TenFour · 7 Feb 2023, 01:43 AM

They've launched a new website: https://skiff.com/

Quote:

Skiff is the privacy-first workspace for free thinkers.

Unfortunately, the term "free thinkers" has been taken over by rightwing nutjobs now. Hopefully Skiff doesn't realize that and just made a mistake.

ioneja · 7 Feb 2023, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

They've launched a new website: https://skiff.com/

Unfortunately, the term "free thinkers" has been taken over by rightwing nutjobs now. Hopefully Skiff doesn't realize that and just made a mistake.

The website looks nice! Man it's nice to have venture capital behind you!

As for the term "free thinkers," I disagree. That's been a mantra for every group which sets themselves outside the mainstream, left, right, whatever part of the spectrum. It's generic enough, good marketing approach, and probably hits the target audience perfectly. And people who feel chained to the Google system and want to break out are looking for something like Skiff. They want the collaboration tools in one box, which Google gave them, which up to know have been elusive in the privacy community. No one has real-time encrypted collaboration in a suite like this, even Proton.

It's a good move, almost makes me want to subscribe.

And I'll tell you the folks at Proton are probably working overtime right now. They've had a long head start, and have grown comfortable with their market lead, but I think if anyone can give them a run for their money right now, it's Skiff.

TenFour · 7 Feb 2023, 02:43 AM

Quote:

And I'll tell you the folks at Proton are probably working overtime right now. They've had a long head start, and have grown comfortable with their market lead, but I think if anyone can give them a run for their money right now, it's Skiff.

Yep. The Proton Main app gets only 3.6 stars in the Play Store while Skiff Mail is at 4.1 stars. With any service even if you aren't going to use the dedicated apps I think it is always worthwhile to check out the reviews for them to see what the ratings are, and what the comments tell you.

ioneja · 7 Feb 2023, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

Yep. The Proton Main app gets only 3.6 stars in the Play Store while Skiff Mail is at 4.1 stars. With any service even if you aren't going to use the dedicated apps I think it is always worthwhile to check out the reviews for them to see what the ratings are, and what the comments tell you.

Doesn't surprise me. Proton is known for being really slow with their development, with an insanely long beta period. So I assume several of the negative reviews are people complaining at some longstanding issue and feature request that has been in limbo forever. Which would be true.

Skiff on the other hand has a very aggressive release schedule, and the progress is obvious to anyone who has been using them since the beginning. It's crazy fast. They must be burning money on devs right now. I've never seen something in the privacy arena move this fast. Unfortunately, the effect of this is that they release half-baked features sometimes. Their calendar app was very buggy (for me) when it launched, but it's much better now.

I get a sense (but with no evidence) that Skiff is using much more of the brutally fast "agile" iterative software development model... with tiny little updates all the time, completing work in what is often referred to as "sprints." I think their sprint cycle is very short at Skiff.

Proton is probably running an agile process too, but much more conservative and with longer cycles and a very conservative beta process.

I don't know which is better. But it kind of fits the founders... Skiff funded by big US venture money with Silicon Valley kind of energy, Proton founded by scientists from CERN, different kinds of people running the show.

But hopefully good times for the privacy community in terms of more options, the better!

Avion · 7 Feb 2023, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioneja

Doesn't surprise me. Proton is known for being really slow with their development, with an insanely long beta period.

They're not a patch on Runbox, who are streets ahead when it comes to betas!

ioneja · 7 Feb 2023, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avion

They're not a patch on Runbox, who are streets ahead when it comes to betas!

Indeed, brutal truth. Runbox betas are legendary.

And what's amazing to me, is that I STILL prefer Runbox 6 over Runbox 7 after all these years!

However, I do like the people who run Runbox. I have to say that in all fairness.

webecedarian · 3 Mar 2023, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webecedarian

I'm wondering, as usual, about an inactivity limit. I didn't see any mention of it.

Anyone?

No luck with anyone finding this?

ioneja · 3 Mar 2023, 08:46 AM

I believe I read (possibly a Reddit response from the CEO) that as of right now, there is no inactivity limit. However, I wouldn't count on that... they are changing things rapidly. I've also received contradicting responses from support about different questions I've had... so I'm not 100% confident they have properly trained support yet to give the right answers either! It's growing a bit on the fast side. I'd suggest to all who sign up to periodically log in just to make sure you are safe.

emebrs · 14 May 2023, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioneja

And what's amazing to me, is that I STILL prefer Runbox 6 over Runbox 7 after all these years!

However, I do like the people who run Runbox. I have to say that in all fairness.

Agreed. Runbox is very dependable.

1 Feb 2023, 11:13 PM	#16
TenFour Master of the @ Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: USA Posts: 1,734	Skiff's "crypto native" pitch turns me off. Not wild about services that want to attract scammers, tax cheats, and crooks.

2 Feb 2023, 12:38 AM	#19
ioneja Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 713	Agreed, they are targeting Proton more than anything IMO. And that blog post you quoted from is just one entry about crypto in a long list of non-crypto posts. Most of their blog centers on privacy, safety, security, productivity, tips, updates to their apps, etc... very little about crypto. So I really think it's a minor part of their messaging and brand. This blog post cracks me up: https://skiff.com/blog/private-email They go through and make a case for basically the way they do encryption, and then generously list three competitors, Proton, Tutanota, and Mailfence, BUT then point out drawbacks of those services. Ironically, some of the drawbacks they list of those other services are literally the exact same drawbacks of Skiff. But at least they do point out their three biggest competitors. So we know who they are studying when they are working on their roadmap. In any case, what they also do well in blog posts like that is make a compelling case for privacy and provide good explanations. So I do appreciate their efforts in making a big play in the market, even with their drawbacks. The more people who understand the issues and search for solutions, the better IMO. Aggressive, well-funded competition from them will make the whole market better too.

2 Feb 2023, 08:10 AM	#20
webecedarian Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 483	I'm wondering, as usual, about an inactivity limit. I didn't see any mention of it. Anyone?

3 Mar 2023, 08:46 AM	#29
ioneja Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 713	I believe I read (possibly a Reddit response from the CEO) that as of right now, there is no inactivity limit. However, I wouldn't count on that... they are changing things rapidly. I've also received contradicting responses from support about different questions I've had... so I'm not 100% confident they have properly trained support yet to give the right answers either! It's growing a bit on the fast side. I'd suggest to all who sign up to periodically log in just to make sure you are safe.