Outlook & IMAP question

poelmanc · 16 Feb 2002, 03:25 PM

I just found FastMail.fm today and signed up - it looks like it's exactly what I was looking for. I hope you guys make lots of money once you're up and running. Though you might need some professional business advice from time to time, don't make the mistakes that some startups make and let business people destroy what you've created! (See http://eveander.com/arsdigita-history for a good horror story.)

I'm using both the web interface and Outlook Express as an IMAP client, and for the most part it works fine. When I read a message with the FastMail web interface, the message soon shows up in Outlook as "read," which is perfect. But when I read a message in Outlook, the message appears to be "read" in Outlook but the next time that "Send/Receive Messages" kicks in, it reverts to appearing unread. In otherwords, the fact that the message has been read doesn't appear to ever make it back to the IMAP server.

Also when I delete a message using the FastMail web interface, it gets moved into the "Trash" folder as it should. But when I delete a message using Outlook, it gets a line through it until the next "Send/Receive Messages", at which time it seems to permanently disappear forever. It sure would be nice if it could just get moved into the same "Trash" directory on the IMAP server.

Is there some configuration setting I can change to make these things work, are they simply limitations in the Outlook client, or is there something that FastMail can do to make these things behave as I would expect them to?

Thanks!

-- Conrad

P.S. A "Mark as Unread" feature in the FastMail web interface might also be nice.

Jeremy Howard · 16 Feb 2002, 03:39 PM

Thanks for the nice feedback, Conrad.

The Outlook client does not support move-to-trash on delete. This is supported my the Mozilla/Netscape mail client however. The 'line through it' means that the message is deleted, but not "purged"--this is the IMAP equivalent of "in the Trash". You can show messages in this state by choosing View->Current View->Show/Hide Messages Marked For Deletion. I don't know why they are disappearing when you Send/Receive... Are you using Outlook 2002 or 2000? We don't recommend using Outlook 2000 because it's IMAP support is very immature--use Outlook 2002 or Outlook Express instead.

The forgetfulness in tracking read state is not something I've come across. But I don't often use Outlook so maybe a more experienced user could comment.

You can mark read/unread in the web interface by checking the boxes for the messages you want to change state, select 'Mark Read' from the Do Action popup, and click 'Do Action'.

poelmanc · 21 Feb 2002, 01:57 AM

Hi Jeremy, thanks for the speedy reply and for pointing out the FastMail "Mark as Unread" feature! The "delete moves to trash" thing is not a big deal anyway, I'm, usually pretty certain when I delete something.

Just FYI about the Outlook Express-based "Mark as Unread" quirkiness in case anyone else asks about it - it seems that if I patiently wait after marking a message as unread, its new "unread" state does indeed get properly propagated back to FastMail via IMAP. Earlier when I was testing the feature out, I would press the "Send/Receive Messages" button immediately after marking the message as unread, which perhaps caused the message's state to get reset from the IMAP server before or instead of sending the message's state from Outlook Express back to the server. If I select some other message after marking a message as unread, then press "Purge Messages" before pressing "Send/Receive Messages", everything seems to behave properly.

Thanks again!

-- Conrad

Jeremy Howard · 21 Feb 2002, 07:23 AM

Thanks for the clarification. The reason that you see that behaviour is that our IMAP server is a multi-user system where processes have to wait their turn to get access to the data store. When you have two accesses in a short time you'll end up with two processes with a different view of the data. The server combines this views when it cleans up the processes.

jlawrenc · 28 Feb 2002, 06:45 AM

I've been using mailandnews up until a few weeks ago, when I learned that they were shutting down for good. Since I made the switch, I've been very impressed with fastmail--thanks for providing a great, low-cost service! I do have one follow-up question on the "purge" subject. Using mailandnews IMAP with Outlook Express 6, when I purge a deleted message from my Inbox, it moves to my deleted folder. Once deleted and purged from the deleted folder, the message is gone for good. I have no idea how mailandnews handles this process, but if you could add this functionality to the "wish list", that would be great.

Thanks again for providing this service!

Jack

16 Feb 2002, 03:25 PM	#1
poelmanc Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12	Outlook & IMAP question I just found FastMail.fm today and signed up - it looks like it's exactly what I was looking for. I hope you guys make lots of money once you're up and running. Though you might need some professional business advice from time to time, don't make the mistakes that some startups make and let business people destroy what you've created! (See http://eveander.com/arsdigita-history for a good horror story.) I'm using both the web interface and Outlook Express as an IMAP client, and for the most part it works fine. When I read a message with the FastMail web interface, the message soon shows up in Outlook as "read," which is perfect. But when I read a message in Outlook, the message appears to be "read" in Outlook but the next time that "Send/Receive Messages" kicks in, it reverts to appearing unread. In otherwords, the fact that the message has been read doesn't appear to ever make it back to the IMAP server. Also when I delete a message using the FastMail web interface, it gets moved into the "Trash" folder as it should. But when I delete a message using Outlook, it gets a line through it until the next "Send/Receive Messages", at which time it seems to permanently disappear forever. It sure would be nice if it could just get moved into the same "Trash" directory on the IMAP server. Is there some configuration setting I can change to make these things work, are they simply limitations in the Outlook client, or is there something that FastMail can do to make these things behave as I would expect them to? Thanks! -- Conrad P.S. A "Mark as Unread" feature in the FastMail web interface might also be nice.

16 Feb 2002, 03:39 PM	#2
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Thanks for the nice feedback, Conrad. The Outlook client does not support move-to-trash on delete. This is supported my the Mozilla/Netscape mail client however. The 'line through it' means that the message is deleted, but not "purged"--this is the IMAP equivalent of "in the Trash". You can show messages in this state by choosing View->Current View->Show/Hide Messages Marked For Deletion. I don't know why they are disappearing when you Send/Receive... Are you using Outlook 2002 or 2000? We don't recommend using Outlook 2000 because it's IMAP support is very immature--use Outlook 2002 or Outlook Express instead. The forgetfulness in tracking read state is not something I've come across. But I don't often use Outlook so maybe a more experienced user could comment. You can mark read/unread in the web interface by checking the boxes for the messages you want to change state, select 'Mark Read' from the Do Action popup, and click 'Do Action'.

21 Feb 2002, 01:57 AM	#3
poelmanc Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12	Hi Jeremy, thanks for the speedy reply and for pointing out the FastMail "Mark as Unread" feature! The "delete moves to trash" thing is not a big deal anyway, I'm, usually pretty certain when I delete something. Just FYI about the Outlook Express-based "Mark as Unread" quirkiness in case anyone else asks about it - it seems that if I patiently wait after marking a message as unread, its new "unread" state does indeed get properly propagated back to FastMail via IMAP. Earlier when I was testing the feature out, I would press the "Send/Receive Messages" button immediately after marking the message as unread, which perhaps caused the message's state to get reset from the IMAP server before or instead of sending the message's state from Outlook Express back to the server. If I select some other message after marking a message as unread, then press "Purge Messages" before pressing "Send/Receive Messages", everything seems to behave properly. Thanks again! -- Conrad

21 Feb 2002, 07:23 AM	#4
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Thanks for the clarification. The reason that you see that behaviour is that our IMAP server is a multi-user system where processes have to wait their turn to get access to the data store. When you have two accesses in a short time you'll end up with two processes with a different view of the data. The server combines this views when it cleans up the processes.

28 Feb 2002, 06:45 AM	#5
jlawrenc Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1	I've been using mailandnews up until a few weeks ago, when I learned that they were shutting down for good. Since I made the switch, I've been very impressed with fastmail--thanks for providing a great, low-cost service! I do have one follow-up question on the "purge" subject. Using mailandnews IMAP with Outlook Express 6, when I purge a deleted message from my Inbox, it moves to my deleted folder. Once deleted and purged from the deleted folder, the message is gone for good. I have no idea how mailandnews handles this process, but if you could add this functionality to the "wish list", that would be great. Thanks again for providing this service! Jack