What is the point of mail clients and phone apps?

Grhm · 22 Sep 2016, 10:21 AM

Hi
I've been a Fastmail user for many years and I often visit this forum, which I always find interesting and sometimes find very useful.
But there are whole swathes of discussion here that make no sense to me at all.
I realised today why that is:
Having only ever accessed mail via the web, I simply don't understand what mail clients and phone apps are for.
I use the same web interface on my PC and on my phone, which seems to me to be an entirely straightforward and convenient way of doing things.
By contrast, mail clients and phone apps seem to be inconsistent, temperamental, resource-hungry and complicated to manage, so there must be very good reasons why people would use them instead of simply using their web browsers.
But I haven't grasped what those reasons are.
Apologies for asking such a basic question, but... what is the point of mail clients and phone apps?
Thanks,
Graham

EricG · 22 Sep 2016, 01:12 PM

An email client can access multiple accounts and often contacts too. Many operate offline too. You can move/copy messages between local and account folders.

An email app is a simplified email client which usually allows multiple accounts. Contacts are usually another app. The gmail app matches the label/archive model of gmail.

When I started computing, text-mode timesharing email clients were the only thing available. This was several years after internet email was invented on Tenex (71?)

Jacinto · 22 Sep 2016, 07:18 PM

Good day.

I addition to what EricG said, you'll find that mail clients, or Mail User Agents (MUA) as they are (were?) known technically, give you a lot of flexibility as to what you can do with messages.

With webmail you can only use the features that the E-Mail provider has built-in to its offering. Granted, some are very feature rich such as Fastmail and some are very spartan such as Runbox.

MUAs, on the other hand, allow you to customize how you receive, process, read, and store messages.

As the OP alluded, some MUAs are "resource-hungry" such as Thunderbird. However, Thunderbird is extremely configurable with the addition of extensions and plug-ins.

There are even some MUAs that are not resource-hungry such as Sylpheed and Claws-Mail and, being open source, you are free to change any feature you don't like or add you own feature(s).

In the end, it comes down to what you are comfortable with in computing. Do you want the computer or smart phone to dictate what you can or can't do, or, do you want to be in charge and run computers and smart phones to your taste and likings?

Hope this helps.

--
Jacinto

Adrian Bell · 23 Sep 2016, 02:13 AM

Email clients made more sense when everyone had dial-up internet. You could download your mail and then read it offline. Nowadays that advantage is less relevant. I find that email clients are faster than webmail. Depending on your provider, webmail can be sluggish.

Phone apps are useful because not all webmail systems display clearly on phones, some are better than others. Plus you can keep an app logged in, and have multiple accounts in one place.

Grhm · 23 Sep 2016, 10:11 AM

Thank you for your replies.
I identify strongly with the desire to have complete control of my mail and to be free to handle it any way I choose... but I don't see how I'm sacrificing that by using webmail.
General talk of 'flexibility' aside, you've come up with five specific requirements that might lead people to use mail clients:
1. Access multiple accounts in one place,
2. Manage contacts,
3. Move/copy messages between local and account folders,
4. Customize how to receive, process, read, and store messages, and
5. Stay logged in.
But all five can be done on Fastmail's web interface(s).
I do them all the time.
As for speed, I have no complaints, but if I did I could get a faster connection.
I still can't understand why people would restrict themselves to a particular device on which they must install and maintain a particular bit of software, to do a job that as far as I can see can be done just as well via any web browser on any device, without installing anything.
I must still be missing something here, but what?

David · 23 Sep 2016, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grhm

Thank you for your replies.
I identify strongly with the desire to have complete control of my mail and to be free to handle it any way I choose... but I don't see how I'm sacrificing that by using webmail.
General talk of 'flexibility' aside, you've come up with five specific requirements that might lead people to use mail clients:
1. Access multiple accounts in one place,
2. Manage contacts,
3. Move/copy messages between local and account folders,
4. Customize how to receive, process, read, and store messages, and
5. Stay logged in.
But all five can be done on Fastmail's web interface(s).

Let us not forget that you have posted this thread to the
'Email Comments, Questions and Miscellaneous' forums Grhm. Fastmail's Webmail is a custom interface, which means it is 'one of a kind'

Many email providers have their own custom interface, while many others use a generic (often open source) interface. As you did not address this thread specifically to Fastmail users, you have received replies from the general populace, many who may never have used Fastmail at all.......

chrisretusn · 23 Sep 2016, 04:02 PM

I use my client (Claws Mail) to download messages from 16 accounts. One account is a local account. The rest are from external providers. All of these accounts with the exception of two use the POP3 protocol to download and delete the messages from the servers Inbox. The POP3 accounts (except for one) share the same mail box with the standard folders (Inbox, Sent, Drafts, Queue, Trash and Spam). New messages are filtered to various subfolders, on a good day there will be no new messages in the Inbox after checking mail. They have been placed in one of the subfolders. The one exception has its own mail box, with its own set of folders.

One account uses IMAP4 protocol to sync the client message store with the server message store. The other is a local account, which is simple read off my systems Inbox.

With my client I can check all of the accounts, or selected accounts.

I do have a couple of email Apps installing on my cell phone, but rarely use them. I prefer my client. I usually only check mail (all accounts) once a day.

I never stay logged in, I could set my client to check for new messages on a periodic basis but prefer to fire it up once a day, manually check for new messages (one button click), process them as needed (replies, etc.) and then close the client.

Jacinto · 23 Sep 2016, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Let us not forget that you have posted this thread to the
'Email Comments, Questions and Miscellaneous' forums Grhm. Fastmail's Webmail is a custom interface, which means it is 'one of a kind'

. . . As you did not address this thread specifically to Fastmail users, you have received replies from the general populace, many who may never have used Fastmail at all.......

Although the OP started this thread by stating:

Quote:

. . . I've been a Fastmail user for many years . . .

The rest of the post was generic. I don't believe the OP was asking for Fastmail specific opinions.

The OP is extremely satisfied with Fastmail webmail and, possibly, was looking for others' opinions to reassure herself or himself that his or her use of Fastmail webmail was and is the best way to go for him or her. If that was, indeed, the OP's purpose for starting this thread, her or his mission has been accomplished.

I have also been a Fastmail subscriber for a long time, but have never been comfortable using its webmail offering, whether the "Classic" or the new and improved current offering.

Having said that, I can see why someone who has never or seldom used a MUA would be satisfied with Fastmail's or some other provider's webmail.

--
Jacinto

Adrian Bell · 24 Sep 2016, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grhm

I still can't understand why people would restrict themselves to a particular device on which they must install and maintain a particular bit of software, to do a job that as far as I can see can be done just as well via any web browser on any device, without installing anything.
I must still be missing something here, but what?

But you are not restricting yourself to a particular device. If you use IMAP to connect, you can use any software, app or web interface on any device as well.

SethM · 24 Sep 2016, 04:26 AM

I don't like web-based interfaces for mail so I avoid them whenever possible. I find web email clunky like it's forcing the browser to do something that it wasn't really designed for.

janusz · 24 Sep 2016, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethM

I find web email clunky like it's forcing the browser to do something that it wasn't really designed for.

Browsers weren't designed for shopping, banking or watching videos either.
Webmail or mail client: it's primarily the matter of personal preferences, with the proviso that certain things can be done only via webmail (e.g. password change).

SethM · 24 Sep 2016, 04:52 AM

Watching a video in a browser doesn't feel clunky to me, nor does shopping, banking. Email does and I just don't like it via web.

janusz · 24 Sep 2016, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janusz

Webmail or mail client: it's primarily the matter of personal preferences

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethM

I just don't like it via web.

This settles the matter, doesn't it?

William9 · 24 Sep 2016, 05:37 AM

MS Office Outlook client is full featured (especially the Windows version) with tight integration of email, contacts, calendar, to do list, Skype for Business, etc.
A Web email app is fine for one account, casual or home use of email, and modest functionality needs. Once you have multiple accounts as stated above, email clients are powerful tools.

Grhm · 27 Sep 2016, 08:28 AM

Thank you all for your contributions and for making this such an interesting discussion.
I was indeed talking generally rather than about Fastmail in particular, but I see David's point: using Fastmail may have given me an unduly favourable impression of the capabilities of webmail generally.
It was very helpful of Chris to list in detail how he uses Claws Mail.
He may be surprised to hear that his list is not dissimilar to what I do with Fastmail:
I just counted them, and I currently have 93 active accounts that I access via a single login and a single set of folders.
The majority of those accounts are on my own domains, but I also have several Fastmail aliases, a legacy guest account that redirects to my main account, and a couple of accounts with a different provider, which I access using the POP3 protocol.
I have set up three separate inboxes and I use Fastmail 'rules' (and simple 'sieve script') to sort incoming mail into the appropriate one.
I currently have 57 folders, named by subject, into which I move mail I wish to keep, and I regularly copy all my stored mail into local storage as a backup and long-term archive.
I also occasionally restore mails from the local archive back into my Fastmail folders when a subject becomes live again.
I also use Fastmail for on-line file storage and to host a static web-site.
Apart from back-up and restore (for which I use a memory card on my phone), I do all that from a variety of devices, using whatever web browser is available.
I don't currently own a working PC, in fact!
But I'm still able to do all those things using my rather basic phone, and public computers in libraries and elsewhere. In fact I could use any device at all that has an internet connection and a web browser.
(Actually that last statement is no longer quite true owing to accessibility problems with the newer of Fastmail's two web interfaces, which is annoyingly fussy about which browsers it will let you use.)
I agree that a web interface can seem 'clunky' on occasion, but that for me is a trivial matter compared with the convenience of being able to do everything I want with my mail from any web-enabled device without having to install and maintain specialised software on each device.
I do, however, feel a little uneasy that I have made myself so dependent on a single company, whose record of reliability and responding to customer's needs is not exemplary.
But I do now back everything up regularly to local storage, so hopefully if Fastmail goes mad or burst I'll be able to be up and running with an alternative provider (or perhaps an 'MUA') without too much disruption.
Thank you all for your thoughts.
In conclusion, as Jacinto said, it is "mission accomplished': I understand more about mail clients/MUAs, but I see no reason to change the way I do things just now.
All the best,
Graham.

22 Sep 2016, 10:21 AM	#1
Grhm Essential Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 270	What is the point of mail clients and phone apps? Hi I've been a Fastmail user for many years and I often visit this forum, which I always find interesting and sometimes find very useful. But there are whole swathes of discussion here that make no sense to me at all. I realised today why that is: Having only ever accessed mail via the web, I simply don't understand what mail clients and phone apps are for. I use the same web interface on my PC and on my phone, which seems to me to be an entirely straightforward and convenient way of doing things. By contrast, mail clients and phone apps seem to be inconsistent, temperamental, resource-hungry and complicated to manage, so there must be very good reasons why people would use them instead of simply using their web browsers. But I haven't grasped what those reasons are. Apologies for asking such a basic question, but... what is the point of mail clients and phone apps? Thanks, Graham

22 Sep 2016, 01:12 PM	#2
EricG Essential Contributor Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 296	An email client can access multiple accounts and often contacts too. Many operate offline too. You can move/copy messages between local and account folders. An email app is a simplified email client which usually allows multiple accounts. Contacts are usually another app. The gmail app matches the label/archive model of gmail. When I started computing, text-mode timesharing email clients were the only thing available. This was several years after internet email was invented on Tenex (71?)

22 Sep 2016, 07:18 PM	#3
Jacinto Essential Contributor Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 395	Good day. I addition to what EricG said, you'll find that mail clients, or Mail User Agents (MUA) as they are (were?) known technically, give you a lot of flexibility as to what you can do with messages. With webmail you can only use the features that the E-Mail provider has built-in to its offering. Granted, some are very feature rich such as Fastmail and some are very spartan such as Runbox. MUAs, on the other hand, allow you to customize how you receive, process, read, and store messages. As the OP alluded, some MUAs are "resource-hungry" such as Thunderbird. However, Thunderbird is extremely configurable with the addition of extensions and plug-ins. There are even some MUAs that are not resource-hungry such as Sylpheed and Claws-Mail and, being open source, you are free to change any feature you don't like or add you own feature(s). In the end, it comes down to what you are comfortable with in computing. Do you want the computer or smart phone to dictate what you can or can't do, or, do you want to be in charge and run computers and smart phones to your taste and likings? Hope this helps. -- Jacinto

23 Sep 2016, 02:13 AM	#4
Adrian Bell Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Darlington, UK Posts: 938	Email clients made more sense when everyone had dial-up internet. You could download your mail and then read it offline. Nowadays that advantage is less relevant. I find that email clients are faster than webmail. Depending on your provider, webmail can be sluggish. Phone apps are useful because not all webmail systems display clearly on phones, some are better than others. Plus you can keep an app logged in, and have multiple accounts in one place.

23 Sep 2016, 10:11 AM	#5
Grhm Essential Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 270	Thank you for your replies. I identify strongly with the desire to have complete control of my mail and to be free to handle it any way I choose... but I don't see how I'm sacrificing that by using webmail. General talk of 'flexibility' aside, you've come up with five specific requirements that might lead people to use mail clients: 1. Access multiple accounts in one place, 2. Manage contacts, 3. Move/copy messages between local and account folders, 4. Customize how to receive, process, read, and store messages, and 5. Stay logged in. But all five can be done on Fastmail's web interface(s). I do them all the time. As for speed, I have no complaints, but if I did I could get a faster connection. I still can't understand why people would restrict themselves to a particular device on which they must install and maintain a particular bit of software, to do a job that as far as I can see can be done just as well via any web browser on any device, without installing anything. I must still be missing something here, but what?

23 Sep 2016, 04:02 PM	#7
chrisretusn Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philippines Posts: 843	I use my client (Claws Mail) to download messages from 16 accounts. One account is a local account. The rest are from external providers. All of these accounts with the exception of two use the POP3 protocol to download and delete the messages from the servers Inbox. The POP3 accounts (except for one) share the same mail box with the standard folders (Inbox, Sent, Drafts, Queue, Trash and Spam). New messages are filtered to various subfolders, on a good day there will be no new messages in the Inbox after checking mail. They have been placed in one of the subfolders. The one exception has its own mail box, with its own set of folders. One account uses IMAP4 protocol to sync the client message store with the server message store. The other is a local account, which is simple read off my systems Inbox. With my client I can check all of the accounts, or selected accounts. I do have a couple of email Apps installing on my cell phone, but rarely use them. I prefer my client. I usually only check mail (all accounts) once a day. I never stay logged in, I could set my client to check for new messages on a periodic basis but prefer to fire it up once a day, manually check for new messages (one button click), process them as needed (replies, etc.) and then close the client.

24 Sep 2016, 04:26 AM	#10
SethM Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 142 Representative of: Rollernet.us	I don't like web-based interfaces for mail so I avoid them whenever possible. I find web email clunky like it's forcing the browser to do something that it wasn't really designed for.

24 Sep 2016, 04:52 AM	#12
SethM Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 142 Representative of: Rollernet.us	Watching a video in a browser doesn't feel clunky to me, nor does shopping, banking. Email does and I just don't like it via web.

24 Sep 2016, 05:37 AM	#14
William9 The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,281	MS Office Outlook client is full featured (especially the Windows version) with tight integration of email, contacts, calendar, to do list, Skype for Business, etc. A Web email app is fine for one account, casual or home use of email, and modest functionality needs. Once you have multiple accounts as stated above, email clients are powerful tools.

27 Sep 2016, 08:28 AM	#15
Grhm Essential Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: UK Posts: 270	Thank you all for your contributions and for making this such an interesting discussion. I was indeed talking generally rather than about Fastmail in particular, but I see David's point: using Fastmail may have given me an unduly favourable impression of the capabilities of webmail generally. It was very helpful of Chris to list in detail how he uses Claws Mail. He may be surprised to hear that his list is not dissimilar to what I do with Fastmail: I just counted them, and I currently have 93 active accounts that I access via a single login and a single set of folders. The majority of those accounts are on my own domains, but I also have several Fastmail aliases, a legacy guest account that redirects to my main account, and a couple of accounts with a different provider, which I access using the POP3 protocol. I have set up three separate inboxes and I use Fastmail 'rules' (and simple 'sieve script') to sort incoming mail into the appropriate one. I currently have 57 folders, named by subject, into which I move mail I wish to keep, and I regularly copy all my stored mail into local storage as a backup and long-term archive. I also occasionally restore mails from the local archive back into my Fastmail folders when a subject becomes live again. I also use Fastmail for on-line file storage and to host a static web-site. Apart from back-up and restore (for which I use a memory card on my phone), I do all that from a variety of devices, using whatever web browser is available. I don't currently own a working PC, in fact! But I'm still able to do all those things using my rather basic phone, and public computers in libraries and elsewhere. In fact I could use any device at all that has an internet connection and a web browser. (Actually that last statement is no longer quite true owing to accessibility problems with the newer of Fastmail's two web interfaces, which is annoyingly fussy about which browsers it will let you use.) I agree that a web interface can seem 'clunky' on occasion, but that for me is a trivial matter compared with the convenience of being able to do everything I want with my mail from any web-enabled device without having to install and maintain specialised software on each device. I do, however, feel a little uneasy that I have made myself so dependent on a single company, whose record of reliability and responding to customer's needs is not exemplary. But I do now back everything up regularly to local storage, so hopefully if Fastmail goes mad or burst I'll be able to be up and running with an alternative provider (or perhaps an 'MUA') without too much disruption. Thank you all for your thoughts. In conclusion, as Jacinto said, it is "mission accomplished': I understand more about mail clients/MUAs, but I see no reason to change the way I do things just now. All the best, Graham.