Don't know where to put this...

JTNM · 9 Nov 2001, 04:28 AM

Hello everyone, first off let me say Edwin please do not delete this, I did not know where to put it so I figured what the heck and put it here.

Ok, well I have known emailaddresses.com for quite a while (for about 2-3 years now) and I have been constantly coming here (nice new look to the forum by the way, UBB looks awful and is a resource hog) and just reading everyones posts. I don't know why I never decided to register and post as well, I guess I was just too lazy. Well anyway here is what I wanted to say...

I am have decided to start my own free email service (I am not using everyone.net or any other company who provides such a feature), I have done this because the connection I have is quite expensive (lets just say its over the $200 mark) and not using it much has put a nice big hole in my dad's pocket (yes I am a teenager, 15 years of age). Thus my email service was born, it will be up until my dad decides to get a better connection (which will be awhile, but I am hoping for a t1). The details......

Decent ammount of stoarge space <<EDIT>>

POP3/SMTP accesible (there is a web interface but I prefer you use the POP3 as it goes faster, and you won't have to complain about the interface).

whateveryouwant@jtnewmedia.co.uk

NO SPAM TOLERATED!!! If you are caught spaming I will have your account suspended ASAP, I monitor my mail server every hour or so (including out going mail).

No attachment size limit, (well there is not but be logical and try NOT to go over the 10mb mark).

and thats all......I think. This is run from my own computer (which I don't use for much except building websites, and browsing the web). I am offering this only to you guys here at emailaddresses.com please ONLY sign up if you will USE the account, do NOT sign up just to test my service out, it works trust me

(I have sent countless test messages). If you like what you see and want this email me at webmaster@jtnewmedia.co.uk and I will give you the link to sign up. Thanks for listening

***Edwin*** · 9 Nov 2001, 08:22 AM

Hmmm... my finger hovered over the "Delete" button, but I relented

I think you're asking for a world of trouble by saying "No storage limit" and also saying "Please do not abuse this!"

This issue has already been discussed elsewhere on these Forums, but bears revisiting here.

Frankly, you (or anyone else offering something "unlimited" of course - your post just provides a good example to use in illustrating my point) can't have it both ways.

EITHER something is "unlimited", which means "without limits of ANY KIND" (that's basically what unlimited means) or else it isn't.

If you have terms and conditions, or "sanity checks" on use, or any other restriction, then it can't possibly be unlimited! You can think of a different expression like "As much storage as you can use, within reasonable limits for a normal email user. I reserve the right to impose a limit if you exceed what I would consider 'reasonable'" or something like that.

Of course, this is a much bigger "mouthful" to contend with than "unlimited" but please, please, please (and this plea goes out not just to you but to the many companies and organizations that fall into this common trap) don't twist the meaning of the English language to short-circuit typing a few extra lines of explanation!

I'm quite convinced there are better/less wordy/more signup-friendly ways of wording it than my example above, but I'm just trying to get the creative juices flowing.

Anyway, best of luck with your large-but-not-unlimited service. If you want me to be brutally honest, I don't think anyone will "dare" to risk signing up with an email service that is run off of a home machine and that is at the mercy of your connection, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

***Edwin*** · 9 Nov 2001, 08:24 AM

Ha-ha-ha... After posting all that, I just wanted to make sure that anyone reading this understands that I equate "no limits" to "unlimited" for the purposes of my mini-rant

Jeremy Howard · 9 Nov 2001, 09:14 AM

My opinion, which I've stated before, is that even 'within reasonable limits' is not good enough. You have to define reasonable. Because someone else might think they're quite reasonable and you don't--I've found from running an email service that people have some very creative uses which I'd never even thought of! So defining 'reasonable' in terms of what a customer uses it for is difficult (and also hard to audit because your customers won't want you snooping through their email to check whether they're "reasonable" or not!). Which leads me to my conclusion that you have to define quantitative limits if you want to be ethical and protect yourself against backlash in the future.

I am not a lawyer, and the following is not legal advice. You should consult an attorney licensed in your juristiction for legal advice.

This ties in with my above points: consider your legal position. Have you got terms of service that the customer agrees to that fully protects you from any loss from failure of your service? Are you completely sure that if you decide to cancel an account because it is 'unreasonable' that you and your Dad are protected if that customer loses a business deal as a result?

Of course, it's a real shame that these things have to be considered. But, that's life. As soon as you post on a public forum like this you need to make sure that you're legally protected both in terms of backing up any claims you make, and in terms of avoiding liability for any service outages, lost data, etc.

JTNM · 9 Nov 2001, 02:46 PM

ok ok, I took that part out and replaced.

Kyle Babich · 10 Nov 2001, 12:00 AM

How decent is decent?
10MB, 50MB, 100MB?

JTNM · 10 Nov 2001, 04:43 AM

100MB or more.

kirill · 10 Nov 2001, 04:57 AM

Who would need 100 megs? And for what?

(Ok, a good friend of mine has managed to accumulate over 100 megs after 8 months, but he never deletes anything)

--
Kirill

Jeremy Howard · 10 Nov 2001, 05:25 AM

C'mon Kirill, you know that some people get 100MB in a single day! It's the YahooGroups mass subscribers, and also people trading MP3s over email and similar, that can really chew up space fast. Using email just for normal messaging though, you're quite right--I've only used 26MB in the last 8 months and I'm a big email user...

***Edwin*** · 10 Nov 2001, 08:24 AM

I just checked and found I have 507MB of mail. But that's stored on my HDD, and accumulated from the last 6 years

princessmaeve · 10 Nov 2001, 08:41 AM

lol about e-mail use... I delete almost everything, unless it's a really outstanding joke or such... (Yes, I'm the type who didn't see it as a big deal when hotmail went to 2 megs a while back)... My e-mail account has something like 10kb stored in it... like I said, I delete everything

Lvsheng · 11 Nov 2001, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edwin
I just checked and found I have 507MB of mail. But that's stored on my HDD, and accumulated from the last 6 years

Ha ha edwin, you think 507mb is big? I have about 540mb mails. Also stored in hdd, accumulated in about half year. Even my friend also say I am crazy, receiving multi megabyte attachment per day. That is how those 540mb comes out, excluding some attachment that I received repeatedly.

Lvsheng · 11 Nov 2001, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Howard
C'mon Kirill, you know that some people get 100MB in a single day! It's the YahooGroups mass subscribers, and also people trading MP3s over email and similar, that can really chew up space fast. Using email just for normal messaging though, you're quite right--I've only used 26MB in the last 8 months and I'm a big email user...

Mmm, those plain text won't take up much space, but those html newsletter is real big space eater. Some newsletter I receive is about 20++kb, Wow

. 100MB is useful, like fm, I can accumulate several days attachment before downloading them if I am busy. Jeremy has anybody pass the 100mb mark of fm?

Jeremy Howard · 11 Nov 2001, 01:47 PM

Yeah, quite a few. But they're almost always using it for something other than just plain old emailing. When someone goes up 100MB in a day or so we send them a message asking what's up. Sometimes it turns out they sent a couple of large files so they've got stuff sitting in sent items which they can easily delete. Sometimes its just lots of YahooGroups porn.

Some people just use it for business stuff when they're away from work, and sending and receiving a few big presentations fills up the mailbox after a few weeks. But using the Purge function seems to fix everyone up--I don't think anyone really has wanted >100MB of space on an ongoing basis other than those using FastMail.FM for stuff it's not designed for (like backup, porn, MLM lists, etc).

OtaconTV · 11 Nov 2001, 03:12 PM

E-mailing MP3's? Is that even possible? Don't you have limits on how big attatchments are? I usually save mail to my HD as soon as I get it, but not lately since I'm learning the webmail interface, it's a lot more productive than Outlook.

9 Nov 2001, 04:28 AM	#1
JTNM Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4	Don't know where to put this... Hello everyone, first off let me say Edwin please do not delete this, I did not know where to put it so I figured what the heck and put it here. Ok, well I have known emailaddresses.com for quite a while (for about 2-3 years now) and I have been constantly coming here (nice new look to the forum by the way, UBB looks awful and is a resource hog) and just reading everyones posts. I don't know why I never decided to register and post as well, I guess I was just too lazy. Well anyway here is what I wanted to say... I am have decided to start my own free email service (I am not using everyone.net or any other company who provides such a feature), I have done this because the connection I have is quite expensive (lets just say its over the $200 mark) and not using it much has put a nice big hole in my dad's pocket (yes I am a teenager, 15 years of age). Thus my email service was born, it will be up until my dad decides to get a better connection (which will be awhile, but I am hoping for a t1). The details...... Decent ammount of stoarge space <<EDIT>> POP3/SMTP accesible (there is a web interface but I prefer you use the POP3 as it goes faster, and you won't have to complain about the interface). whateveryouwant@jtnewmedia.co.uk NO SPAM TOLERATED!!! If you are caught spaming I will have your account suspended ASAP, I monitor my mail server every hour or so (including out going mail). No attachment size limit, (well there is not but be logical and try NOT to go over the 10mb mark). and thats all......I think. This is run from my own computer (which I don't use for much except building websites, and browsing the web). I am offering this only to you guys here at emailaddresses.com please ONLY sign up if you will USE the account, do NOT sign up just to test my service out, it works trust me (I have sent countless test messages). If you like what you see and want this email me at webmaster@jtnewmedia.co.uk and I will give you the link to sign up. Thanks for listening Last edited by JTNM : 9 Nov 2001 at 02:45 PM.

11 Nov 2001, 03:12 PM	#15
OtaconTV Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 66	E-mailing MP3's? Is that even possible? Don't you have limits on how big attatchments are? I usually save mail to my HD as soon as I get it, but not lately since I'm learning the webmail interface, it's a lot more productive than Outlook. Last edited by OtaconTV : 11 Nov 2001 at 03:15 PM.

9 Nov 2001, 08:22 AM	#2
*Edwin* Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: UK Posts: 3,118	Hmmm... my finger hovered over the "Delete" button, but I relented I think you're asking for a world of trouble by saying "No storage limit" and also saying "Please do not abuse this!" This issue has already been discussed elsewhere on these Forums, but bears revisiting here. Frankly, you (or anyone else offering something "unlimited" of course - your post just provides a good example to use in illustrating my point) can't have it both ways. EITHER something is "unlimited", which means "without limits of ANY KIND" (that's basically what unlimited means) or else it isn't. If you have terms and conditions, or "sanity checks" on use, or any other restriction, then it can't possibly be unlimited! You can think of a different expression like "As much storage as you can use, within reasonable limits for a normal email user. I reserve the right to impose a limit if you exceed what I would consider 'reasonable'" or something like that. Of course, this is a much bigger "mouthful" to contend with than "unlimited" but please, please, please (and this plea goes out not just to you but to the many companies and organizations that fall into this common trap) don't twist the meaning of the English language to short-circuit typing a few extra lines of explanation! I'm quite convinced there are better/less wordy/more signup-friendly ways of wording it than my example above, but I'm just trying to get the creative juices flowing. Anyway, best of luck with your large-but-not-unlimited service. If you want me to be brutally honest, I don't think anyone will "dare" to risk signing up with an email service that is run off of a home machine and that is at the mercy of your connection, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

9 Nov 2001, 08:24 AM	#3
*Edwin* Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: UK Posts: 3,118	Ha-ha-ha... After posting all that, I just wanted to make sure that anyone reading this understands that I equate "no limits" to "unlimited" for the purposes of my mini-rant

9 Nov 2001, 09:14 AM	#4
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	My opinion, which I've stated before, is that even 'within reasonable limits' is not good enough. You have to define reasonable. Because someone else might think they're quite reasonable and you don't--I've found from running an email service that people have some very creative uses which I'd never even thought of! So defining 'reasonable' in terms of what a customer uses it for is difficult (and also hard to audit because your customers won't want you snooping through their email to check whether they're "reasonable" or not!). Which leads me to my conclusion that you have to define quantitative limits if you want to be ethical and protect yourself against backlash in the future. I am not a lawyer, and the following is not legal advice. You should consult an attorney licensed in your juristiction for legal advice. This ties in with my above points: consider your legal position. Have you got terms of service that the customer agrees to that fully protects you from any loss from failure of your service? Are you completely sure that if you decide to cancel an account because it is 'unreasonable' that you and your Dad are protected if that customer loses a business deal as a result? Of course, it's a real shame that these things have to be considered. But, that's life. As soon as you post on a public forum like this you need to make sure that you're legally protected both in terms of backing up any claims you make, and in terms of avoiding liability for any service outages, lost data, etc.

9 Nov 2001, 02:46 PM	#5
JTNM Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4	ok ok, I took that part out and replaced.

10 Nov 2001, 12:00 AM	#6
Kyle Babich Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 540	How decent is decent? 10MB, 50MB, 100MB?

10 Nov 2001, 04:43 AM	#7
JTNM Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 4	100MB or more.

10 Nov 2001, 04:57 AM	#8
kirill Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 879	Who would need 100 megs? And for what? (Ok, a good friend of mine has managed to accumulate over 100 megs after 8 months, but he never deletes anything) -- Kirill

10 Nov 2001, 05:25 AM	#9
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	C'mon Kirill, you know that some people get 100MB in a single day! It's the YahooGroups mass subscribers, and also people trading MP3s over email and similar, that can really chew up space fast. Using email just for normal messaging though, you're quite right--I've only used 26MB in the last 8 months and I'm a big email user...

10 Nov 2001, 08:24 AM	#10
*Edwin* Administrator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: UK Posts: 3,118	I just checked and found I have 507MB of mail. But that's stored on my HDD, and accumulated from the last 6 years

10 Nov 2001, 08:41 AM	#11
princessmaeve Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Worcester, MA Posts: 95	lol about e-mail use... I delete almost everything, unless it's a really outstanding joke or such... (Yes, I'm the type who didn't see it as a big deal when hotmail went to 2 megs a while back)... My e-mail account has something like 10kb stored in it... like I said, I delete everything

11 Nov 2001, 01:47 PM	#14
Jeremy Howard Ultimate Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 11,501	Yeah, quite a few. But they're almost always using it for something other than just plain old emailing. When someone goes up 100MB in a day or so we send them a message asking what's up. Sometimes it turns out they sent a couple of large files so they've got stuff sitting in sent items which they can easily delete. Sometimes its just lots of YahooGroups porn. Some people just use it for business stuff when they're away from work, and sending and receiving a few big presentations fills up the mailbox after a few weeks. But using the Purge function seems to fix everyone up--I don't think anyone really has wanted >100MB of space on an ongoing basis other than those using FastMail.FM for stuff it's not designed for (like backup, porn, MLM lists, etc).