Gmail not receiving your own mailing list posts?

[xmailer]

Originally Posted by Rip Slagcheek

One problem there. The YahooGroups stuff is one I use without a Yahoo account (I subscribed from the email address but never created an account,) so I can't login to check. The original message I received said something like "if you're getting this, messages aren't bouncing anymore." I was able to re-enable the address for group messages, so that's fixed. I haven't tested it on my own but someone who sent to my semi-public (other) gmail address received an undeliverable message, as if my account didn't exist.

Seems fine now. Luckily all my important messages are sent to my domain addresses.

If I can find out more information, I'll post it.

It sounds like this could be related to the same Gmail non-delivery issue I referred to above, which Yahoo attributed to a problem on Gmail's end, and hasn't recanted on that, although there is an update on their blog here, suggesting that that particular issue was resolved about a week ago:

UPDATE 3/21 3 p.m. Pacific Time: We have restored all the accounts that were in "Bouncing" status due to the Gmail non-delivery issues. Users should now be receiving their Groups mail as usual.

There's also an update on the duplicate message issue:

Update (8:00 am PST, 3/29): A fix was pushed at midnight (Pacific Time) that we believe has resolved the problem for messages submitted after that time. However, it is possible that some users of some groups may have continued to receive duplicates of messages that were posted before midnight.

Prior to this update they had said:

There is, however, one silver lining to this bug. It was the result of our latest system updates intended to improve email delivery speeds. So once the bugs are resolved, we should see a significant reduction in the time it takes to deliver messages to Yahoo! Groups members.

Edit: Back more to the original topic of this thread, I continue running into reports by Yahoo Groups members saying that they have switched away from using Gmail specifically over the original issue of this thread, Gmail's refusal to deliver Yahoo Groups messages to one's account which were sent by oneself.

It seems reasonable to me that people want to see that their messages to the groups were received by Yahoo and sent to other group members, without having to jump through hoops to accommodate this weird (and "Big Brotherish" IMO) "policy" of Gmail's. If Google has any interest in displaying their ads to these users, perhaps they might wish to reconsider, in the interest of not losing even more users to Yahoo or other services which don't appear to try to so blatantly "control" their users' email use.

[Rip Slagcheek]

Thanks xmailer. I haven't had issues with gmail before, but I'm glad I'm not using it as a primary account anymore. One of the accounts is simply a mailing list archive so I don't store thousands of messages in tuffmail.

[ultra]

Originally Posted by xmailer

If their scouring of users' messages in order to "target" their advertising isn't enough to convince you that everything "about" gmail is based on financial motives, then I guess I'm not sure what would be.

Just need to agree to disagree on this one, I think.

Gmail happens to display Google Ads (if one permits them in your browser - Opera does not display any, on this and other PCs I have running linux - so perhaps I have a blinkered view ) but there are thousands of other websites which display such Goooooogle ads far more, leading to one having to hunt the useful text from among sections of adverts.

That Gmail is provided free (in return for them displaying ads, as some beta, and with limited guarantee of reliability) is acceptable by many, but for it to be described as having everything to do with financial motives something I will continue to challenge - else there would be a fee for use because they surely know some do not view ads, let alone click on them.

Also, if there were advertisers only using the pay per click option, there would be none to show. The ads which are displayed are supposedly related to the mail content, and similar for the various websites which exist with lots of blasted adverts, too, but it takes two to tango, and either the advertisers are unaware of a boost in displays (costing them cash) because of the addition of Gmail, or the users are dumb enough to click such ads, encouraging more advertising, or both. However, I cannot blame Google for displaying ads when they have no other way to pay for the service, and (problems described elsewehere in this thread aside) it is a pretty good service - certainly handles tens of thousands of spam mail items efficiently for some 75 domains I manage (some mine, some for clients) while allowing a good degree of filtering, forwarding, and so on.

I am far from comfortable about people (especially the BBC, perhaps) using the term googling when they should be simply searching the web for information, and personally use MetaCrawler as my search machine of choice, allowing it to pull in results from several search tools, not just the infamous Google. I understand the views of some anti-Google zealots (not you, perhaps) whose view is that Google, by its censorship in some countries, and big-brother type activities in respect of logging what users do, is some major power for evil, but I currently remain on-the-fence until there has been some report backed up with solid evidence that users have had their privacy invaded. Anyway, the motives and financing of Google is bound to go further and further off topic, so I plan no further discussion of those aspects.

[ultra]

Originally Posted by xmailer

It seems reasonable to me that people want to see that their messages to the groups were received by Yahoo and sent to other group members, without having to jump through hoops to accommodate this weird (and "Big Brotherish" IMO) "policy" of Gmail's.

I was suspicious of whether Gmail was incorrectly handling the outgoing mail (but have just tested, using a message to user @ example.com where user @ example.com is set as a valid 'from' address for me... it certainly goes out OK to the remote server, which forwards it on to multiple mailboxes.

So the problem is one of Gmail handling of incoming mail, probably because of the way that threads are handled (an annoyance at best, a problem at worst) and the so-called clever handling such that duplicated messages are not stored/shown... So the inbound message from a user is found to match their own outbound message and is considered a duplicate so neither stored nor displayed in the Inbox.

I have suggested Google split threads (say there are a dozen messages with the same subject line, but the content relates to different widgets (in my case, domains / clients) so it may be inconvenient for them all to be in one thread, and individual items cannot be separated once they have been placed in a thread with others) but there has never been any acknowledgement from a human...

There are aspects I have yet to understand - for example I get hourly status messages from different web servers, usually kept in one thread as they come from the "Cron Daemon" (software on webserver) but from time to time a new thread is started, while other times, a new message is added to existing ones. Puzzling!

[xmailer]

Originally Posted by ultra

Just need to agree to disagree on this one, I think.

Gmail happens to display Google Ads (if one permits them in your browser - Opera does not display any, on this and other PCs I have running linux - so perhaps I have a blinkered view ) but there are thousands of other websites which display such Goooooogle ads far more, leading to one having to hunt the useful text from among sections of adverts.

That Gmail is provided free (in return for them displaying ads, as some beta, and with limited guarantee of reliability) is acceptable by many, but for it to be described as having everything to do with financial motives something I will continue to challenge - else there would be a fee for use because they surely know some do not view ads, let alone click on them.

Also, if there were advertisers only using the pay per click option, there would be none to show. The ads which are displayed are supposedly related to the mail content, and similar for the various websites which exist with lots of blasted adverts, too, but it takes two to tango, and either the advertisers are unaware of a boost in displays (costing them cash) because of the addition of Gmail, or the users are dumb enough to click such ads, encouraging more advertising, or both. However, I cannot blame Google for displaying ads when they have no other way to pay for the service, and (problems described elsewehere in this thread aside) it is a pretty good service - certainly handles tens of thousands of spam mail items efficiently for some 75 domains I manage (some mine, some for clients) while allowing a good degree of filtering, forwarding, and so on.

I am far from comfortable about people (especially the BBC, perhaps) using the term googling when they should be simply searching the web for information, and personally use MetaCrawler as my search machine of choice, allowing it to pull in results from several search tools, not just the infamous Google. I understand the views of some anti-Google zealots (not you, perhaps) whose view is that Google, by its censorship in some countries, and big-brother type activities in respect of logging what users do, is some major power for evil, but I currently remain on-the-fence until there has been some report backed up with solid evidence that users have had their privacy invaded. Anyway, the motives and financing of Google is bound to go further and further off topic, so I plan no further discussion of those aspects.

I don't have time to address everything in your somewhat lengthy post in detail, but for now I'll just say that the issue of Google's regard, or lack thereof, of users' privacy is ultimately just as much a subjective as an objective one. That is to say, if one feels that Google's methods of operation are an infringement of one's personal sense of privacy, then to that person it is a "legitimate" concern. That is, where to "draw the line" with regard to personal privacy is largely a subjective matter and people are therefore bound to have different judgements about it, with no one person's judgemernt ultimately being the "correct" one.

Therefore, therre IS no "simple" answer as to whether or not Google has infringed on people's privacy, but rather, they have and they have not done so, both statements being correct and not standing in contradiction to each other. IMO