Lifetime account for Full or Enhanced users - Page 2

esTester · 4 May 2002, 12:46 PM

I would say 10 years if you are going in that direction. I think that would eliminate even more conflict and be better for business.

lux · 4 May 2002, 12:50 PM

Maybe five years

I've never used one for more than five years...

Bankistan · 4 May 2002, 12:58 PM

Good Day ... Jeremy,

An excellent idea, but ...

I would caution that Life subscriptions are offered for limited time only, and not continue as a long term solution to new memberships. Fair enough ???

Cheers for now.

redmyrlin · 4 May 2002, 03:11 PM

fwiw, although in theory lifetime subscriptions sound fine, in practice they're fraught with practical problems. I would advise against it.

Similarly with a 20 year or 10 year subscriptions - these are just too long term to consider in a fast moving milieu.

I would think a 7 year subscription option would offer the right balance between being too short term (3 or 5 years) and being too long term (10 years +). This could then be offered on say a 2.5x or 3x multiple.

I'd certainly give such an offer serious consideration.

DavidJX023 · 4 May 2002, 03:36 PM

Is this idea of a really longterm account for the purpose of not worrying about having to pay again in a year or two years or however long your membership is, or is it for the sake of giving Jeremy and Rob some extra cash?

If it's the latter, what about just donating money to Fastmail for 1) helping out with operating and upgrading costs or 2) so Jeremy can donate member or full accounts to chosen people or non-profit organizations?

Ninniku · 4 May 2002, 03:39 PM

I've always thought of lifetime memberships as a way to protect yourself against future price increases, as well. Unfortunately, even at 6x, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with that kind of cash ...

esTester · 4 May 2002, 04:17 PM

Thats something that I talked about above. I was talking about an ISP, but it is the same thing here. Many people couldn't afford to pay all the money up front. This would be true for lots of people because money is made over time and not all spent at once.

gukein · 4 May 2002, 04:52 PM

20 years!!!!!!!

I don't think anyone will be using email after 10 years....

ehabshoubaki · 4 May 2002, 05:09 PM

No...... Not a good idea ................. don't forget that the member account is a lifetime account .............getting a large amount of initial cash may sound nice ......... but operation cost will remain for ever ......and lets not forget inflation .....( unless the cash is invested ofcourse )

I'm against it.

redmyrlin · 4 May 2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ehabshoubaki
..... don't forget that the member account is a lifetime ...

and so is the free account!

mail2me · 4 May 2002, 06:28 PM

Quote

You might be much better off offering e.g. a 20-year account rather than a "lifetime" account.

Unquote

I don't personally agree. The whole idea to pay such a huge amount upfront would be not to have to worry about payments again except for services not included in the plan such as SMS which would still be charged per message, extra bandwidth etc. Otherwise it comes to the same thing as an annual or five year plan so people would then opt for the shorter plan to be on the safe side. A 50-year limit would be okay since we wouldn't be alive by then to prevent successors from using the same account.

The users are taking a risk too. If the company really want to they can pocket out the huge amount collected and then close company and start another one. However if the plan and company is a success then there would be no reason to do that since even though there is no monthly payments from those existing lifetime members it will still be a continuous form of cash inflow with users signing up for lifetime accounts daily from the new members and new generations.

Quote

I would caution that Life subscriptions are offered for limited time only, and not continue as a long term solution to new memberships.

Unquote

I don't think it is necessary as mentioned above.

...even though there is no monthly payments from those existing lifetime members it will still be a continuous form of cash inflow with users signing up for lifetime accounts daily from the new members and new generations.

So this is a continuous form of cash inflow in big amounts and remember there is still a bandwidth limitation even for full or enhanced members.

The users are taking a risk by paying a big upfront amount for a company which might discontinue services at anytime as per agreement while the company safeguards itself from the agreement in case of an eventuality. So some might think that it is not worth taking the risk. Those who dare to take it up are automatically benefited in the long term (hopefully) for placing the trust in the company.

I personally would take it up since I see fastmail as a highly potential company in view of their unmatchable services to any existing email service as at today. There is no single company as at today that even come close to fastmail. It is truly the email service of the next generation and I hope it only improves despite any competition which may prop up in the future.

On the otherhand I see this as a way of improving the cashflow for availability of funds for investement and expansion projects. That is from a company point of view.

Also the both the guest and member accounts are lifetime accounts too. Full and Enhanced just have additional features.

hihi234x · 4 May 2002, 08:17 PM

It has been my experience that things on the net seldom last more than a few years--no less a lifetime. I lost all my emails when worldspy.com went under--and lost my money at photopoint.com when they went bankrupt.

odedp · 4 May 2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hihi234x
It has been my experience that things on the net seldom last more than a few years--no less a lifetime. I lost all my emails when worldspy.com went under--and lost my money at photopoint.com when they went bankrupt.

True, but I guess if people wouldn't trust Fastmail to be there *much longer* than a few years most of them (including myself) wouldn't use the service at all - not to mention pay for it...
Oded

PON · 4 May 2002, 10:42 PM

Some interesting points have been made for and against the lifetime subscription idea.

FOR

1. It would give fastmail some money up front.

If the goal is to support fastmail it's better to sign up new, preferably, enhanced accounts.

Alternatively, Jeremy and Rob can raise capital from investors with free email being a perk for original shareholders (non transferrable) holding a given nr of shares (or more). This is quite a common incentive system.

2. It would save the hassle of annual renewal.

A weak point I think. The administration isn't that difficult.

3. TO SAVE MONEY.

The savings on multi-year domain registration are significant and a comparable set up at Fastmail would be quite reasonable.

However, it may be desirable to have original terms and conditions (storage and bandwidth limits, feature set) apply or else Fastmail will have to keep grandfathering things for original customers.

AGAINST

1. Things change. Fastmail may not be here.

A weak point. You may not either! (Accidents do happen). I just closed a Compuserve account that I opened in 1983. My work email address hasn't changed in years.

2. Disputes with successors

Take an enhanced account holder with own domain, family members with regular accounts, add one heart attack...

I agree that 10 years is a good horizon. Otherwise the price should depend on your age!

**circuit** · 4 May 2002, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by odedp
I guess if people wouldn't trust Fastmail to be there *much longer* than a few years most of them (including myself) wouldn't use the service at all - not to mention pay for it...

I don't think that's true in every case. Personally I have started to reluctantly accept the fact that my email service provider WILL change every few years. I like to look for something new & innovative, and if I find it, I will move on. I try to keep my own domains registered so only the service and back-up email address change.

Services CAN and DO get worse, get bought out or go out of business. I hope this doesn't happen to FastMail (I actually doubt it very much) - but who can be sure? If it does, I will probably be glad I hadn't paid for another 15 years' useless email access.

Nobody will be emailing - on a computer anyway - in 20 years time, and where will FastMail be then, if it can even survive inflation and costs long enough to support it's crew of ageing contract users? It seems like a risky process for everyone involved.

(Edit: this whole argument reminds me a bit of the infamous 'Unlimited Bandwidth' promise of some web hosts. Sounds comforting, but it's simply a lie - you can't keep that kind of promise unless you're happy for service to suffer as a result).

4 May 2002, 12:58 PM	#18
Bankistan Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 34	Caution ... Good Day ... Jeremy, An excellent idea, but ... I would caution that Life subscriptions are offered for limited time only, and not continue as a long term solution to new memberships. Fair enough ??? Cheers for now.

4 May 2002, 06:28 PM	#26
mail2me Master of the @ Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: California, USA Posts: 1,597	Quote You might be much better off offering e.g. a 20-year account rather than a "lifetime" account. Unquote I don't personally agree. The whole idea to pay such a huge amount upfront would be not to have to worry about payments again except for services not included in the plan such as SMS which would still be charged per message, extra bandwidth etc. Otherwise it comes to the same thing as an annual or five year plan so people would then opt for the shorter plan to be on the safe side. A 50-year limit would be okay since we wouldn't be alive by then to prevent successors from using the same account. The users are taking a risk too. If the company really want to they can pocket out the huge amount collected and then close company and start another one. However if the plan and company is a success then there would be no reason to do that since even though there is no monthly payments from those existing lifetime members it will still be a continuous form of cash inflow with users signing up for lifetime accounts daily from the new members and new generations. Quote I would caution that Life subscriptions are offered for limited time only, and not continue as a long term solution to new memberships. Unquote I don't think it is necessary as mentioned above. ...even though there is no monthly payments from those existing lifetime members it will still be a continuous form of cash inflow with users signing up for lifetime accounts daily from the new members and new generations. So this is a continuous form of cash inflow in big amounts and remember there is still a bandwidth limitation even for full or enhanced members. The users are taking a risk by paying a big upfront amount for a company which might discontinue services at anytime as per agreement while the company safeguards itself from the agreement in case of an eventuality. So some might think that it is not worth taking the risk. Those who dare to take it up are automatically benefited in the long term (hopefully) for placing the trust in the company. I personally would take it up since I see fastmail as a highly potential company in view of their unmatchable services to any existing email service as at today. There is no single company as at today that even come close to fastmail. It is truly the email service of the next generation and I hope it only improves despite any competition which may prop up in the future. On the otherhand I see this as a way of improving the cashflow for availability of funds for investement and expansion projects. That is from a company point of view. Also the both the guest and member accounts are lifetime accounts too. Full and Enhanced just have additional features. Last edited by mail2me : 4 May 2002 at 07:05 PM.

4 May 2002, 12:46 PM	#16
esTester Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 968	I would say 10 years if you are going in that direction. I think that would eliminate even more conflict and be better for business.

4 May 2002, 12:50 PM	#17
lux The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 2,274	Maybe five years I've never used one for more than five years...

4 May 2002, 03:11 PM	#19
redmyrlin Master of the @ Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,409	fwiw, although in theory lifetime subscriptions sound fine, in practice they're fraught with practical problems. I would advise against it. Similarly with a 20 year or 10 year subscriptions - these are just too long term to consider in a fast moving milieu. I would think a 7 year subscription option would offer the right balance between being too short term (3 or 5 years) and being too long term (10 years +). This could then be offered on say a 2.5x or 3x multiple. I'd certainly give such an offer serious consideration.

4 May 2002, 03:36 PM	#20
DavidJX023 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 120	Is this idea of a really longterm account for the purpose of not worrying about having to pay again in a year or two years or however long your membership is, or is it for the sake of giving Jeremy and Rob some extra cash? If it's the latter, what about just donating money to Fastmail for 1) helping out with operating and upgrading costs or 2) so Jeremy can donate member or full accounts to chosen people or non-profit organizations?

4 May 2002, 03:39 PM	#21
Ninniku Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 55	I've always thought of lifetime memberships as a way to protect yourself against future price increases, as well. Unfortunately, even at 6x, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with that kind of cash ...

4 May 2002, 04:17 PM	#22
esTester Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 968	Thats something that I talked about above. I was talking about an ISP, but it is the same thing here. Many people couldn't afford to pay all the money up front. This would be true for lots of people because money is made over time and not all spent at once.

4 May 2002, 04:52 PM	#23
gukein Essential Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Kerala, India Posts: 325	20 years!!!!!!! I don't think anyone will be using email after 10 years....

4 May 2002, 05:09 PM	#24
ehabshoubaki Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 65	No...... Not a good idea ................. don't forget that the member account is a lifetime account .............getting a large amount of initial cash may sound nice ......... but operation cost will remain for ever ......and lets not forget inflation .....( unless the cash is invested ofcourse ) I'm against it.

4 May 2002, 08:17 PM	#27
hihi234x Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 20	It has been my experience that things on the net seldom last more than a few years--no less a lifetime. I lost all my emails when worldspy.com went under--and lost my money at photopoint.com when they went bankrupt.

4 May 2002, 10:42 PM	#29
PON Essential Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Wicklow, Ireland Posts: 449	Some interesting points have been made for and against the lifetime subscription idea. FOR 1. It would give fastmail some money up front. If the goal is to support fastmail it's better to sign up new, preferably, enhanced accounts. Alternatively, Jeremy and Rob can raise capital from investors with free email being a perk for original shareholders (non transferrable) holding a given nr of shares (or more). This is quite a common incentive system. 2. It would save the hassle of annual renewal. A weak point I think. The administration isn't that difficult. 3. TO SAVE MONEY. The savings on multi-year domain registration are significant and a comparable set up at Fastmail would be quite reasonable. However, it may be desirable to have original terms and conditions (storage and bandwidth limits, feature set) apply or else Fastmail will have to keep grandfathering things for original customers. AGAINST 1. Things change. Fastmail may not be here. A weak point. You may not either! (Accidents do happen). I just closed a Compuserve account that I opened in 1983. My work email address hasn't changed in years. 2. Disputes with successors Take an enhanced account holder with own domain, family members with regular accounts, add one heart attack... I agree that 10 years is a good horizon. Otherwise the price should depend on your age!