Disposable addresses... - Page 6

aaronlawrence · 20 Aug 2007, 05:41 PM

Darn I forgot to mention. Sneakemail has some important options for how to handle addresses, indeed there is a surprising amount of control. But basically they give you the option to allow, silently delete mail, defer (like greylist) or bounce a particular address, and in addition you can delete the actual address.

In these spam-deluged times silently delete is probably the only fair one, otherwise you would be making backscatter if bouncing.

Zarquon · 20 Aug 2007, 10:42 PM

Well, I'm using disposable addresses very much the like mailshell.com once offered. I'm doing this with my own domain. Like, every registration I need to make, every evendor I deal with, gets a personalized address in the form of vendor@mydomain.tld. Some of these addresses are shortlived, some are in use for a very long time. Nonetheless, it would be great if the features (expiry etc.) already listed would become available. Perhaps also for own domains/subdomains, eg. vendor@disposable.mydomain.tld

hadaso · 21 Aug 2007, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronlawrence

In these spam-deluged times silently delete is probably the only fair one, otherwise you would be making backscatter if bouncing.

AFAIK Sneakemail bounces are real (SMTP) bounces (that is email is refused) so they don't create backscatter.

Quote:

... sneakemail currently seems to be quite slow to me (the address list takes about 10 seconds to download and its only plain text)

Sneakemail allows sending the addresslist by email from the download screen. So I just send it to myself and have it automatically filed and marked read in FastMail.

ao1 · 23 Aug 2007, 02:35 AM

SpamGourmet works for me

aaronlawrence · 31 Aug 2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hadaso

AFAIK Sneakemail bounces are real (SMTP) bounces (that is email is refused) so they don't create backscatter.

Good to know, thanks.

Quote:

Sneakemail allows sending the addresslist by email from the download screen. So I just send it to myself and have it automatically filed and marked read in FastMail.

Yep, only when I went to try that the other day it barfed on me with an error

I logged it with support... don't think they replied yet.

Sneakemail is obviously another one-man-band but a good service IMO.

hadaso · 2 Sep 2007, 05:52 AM

I'm not sure the way I've been using spamgourmet is really good. I put posted lots of different addresses around different forums/blogs/talkbacks and some of them have been spammed until they reached their limit, so now there are posts with an address of mine that accept mail and silently discards it. It would have been better if the addresses have been blocked (i.e. rejected like sneakemail addresses). The way it is people might find a post using a search engine, send mail, and would be sure that it was received.

The kind of "disposable address" I really want is one where I can selectively block it with an (SMTP) error message that says something about how I can be contacted (such as providing a new disposable address that is not blocked but can be blocked in the same way later or just point to a web page were contact info or contact form is available). This way humans would still be able to reach me and bots would not. The way I want it to work is that addresses are created when they receive mail (like spamgourmet, no need to predefine them) and the status of each address can later be changed to either "block and give contact info" or "just block".

If I want to do this in FastMail I would need a way to tell the external SMTP server exactly which addresses to block and to provide a custom error message to go with it. Then I would probably set it to provide an alternate address and change this address if it receives spam. I already have several addresses that I want to work this way (they are getting lots of spam, are not in use for quite some time, but are still posted in places were people might ask work related question, and also might be in the addressbooks of some people that might have a need to contact me in work related matters (such as students from previous semesters).

Anyway, I think a bounce message that gives info about how the person can be contacted is superior to one that is just saying "user not in local recipient table" (if the person wants to be contacted by non-spammers) and I think it can be an anti-spam tool that works better than challenge/response and better than silently discarding mail (I can think of other uses like environment friendly vacation message, but this is a bit OT).

**Sherry** · 2 Sep 2007, 06:14 AM

Hi hadaso,

Isn't everything you want already available using Aliases/SubDomains? To me a disposable address is there to be used until you have a need to dispose of it to stop all email at the external SMTP level...

Sherry

EDIT: Just realized the Aliases won't work on the external SMTP level but still, shouldn't the ability to do what you want be incorporated into aliases instead of disposable addresses?

**Gankaku** · 26 Sep 2007, 11:37 PM

Just adding my 2cents here.

This is a feature I'd use lots. I've been using jetable.org for years because of its simplicity and convenience. You enter in the email address where you want your mail to go to (in my instance, my fastmail account), the number of days you want the address to be valid (there's a dropdown menu of days that you select) and that's it! You get a generated email address consisting of letters_and_numbers@jetable.org for you to copy and paste.

If you implemented something as simple it'd be wonderful.

Merovingian · 27 Sep 2007, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

Hi hadaso,
Isn't everything you want already available using Aliases/SubDomains? To me a disposable address is there to be used until you have a need to dispose of it to stop all email at the external SMTP level...
Sherry
EDIT: Just realized the Aliases won't work on the external SMTP level but still, shouldn't the ability to do what you want be incorporated into aliases instead of disposable addresses?

This is what I was thinking. What benefit is there to a disposable address vs. an alias and/or subdomains? Aren't these also "disposable" by nature? Also, if we either delete an alias or unclick/deactivate it, is that going to stop at the SMTP level as well?

**Sherry** · 28 Sep 2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovingian

What benefit is there to a disposable address vs. an alias and/or subdomains?

For me an Alias/SubDomain address is for, hopefully, continued use until spammed. So far none of them has been spammed. (knock on wood).

Example of a disposable address. Last night I ordered something from a gadget book by phone (no website). She asked for an email address to use to send a confirmation and shipping info. Gadget book companies do sell your name and home address to other type companies. When I asked her if my email address would be sold she didn't have an answer. With the disposable address I would have given it to her then after the packages arrived I would have gone in and deleted it. I also liked the idea that it plainly shows, by the domain, that it's a disposable one.

(now that the Full accounts get more aliases I should go put one in now for that kind of use since the disposable ones seem to be on hold?)

Sherry

jfinlayson · 28 Sep 2007, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovingian

This is what I was thinking. What benefit is there to a disposable address vs. an alias and/or subdomains? Aren't these also "disposable" by nature? Also, if we either delete an alias or unclick/deactivate it, is that going to stop at the SMTP level as well?

I agree. I've followed this thread since its inception, and I have yet to see a compelling case made for disposable addresses offering something of substantial value over subdomain addresses. I'd rather see FastMail's development resources invested elsewhere.

In fact, in most situations any disposable address implementation that requires preallocation I would find LESS useful than subdomain addresses. Subdomain addresses can be created on the fly without having to log in somewhere and define them.

For example, when I'm filling out a form at the DMV with a 5-year-old yanking on my pant-leg, there's no way I'm going to be willing to log into a web site on my smartphone in order to generate a disposable address.

But even in the best circumstances -- sitting at the desk, filling out a web form, with time to spare, it's much more convenient to generate your own subdomain address without having to momentarily leave that form. I use a bookmarket to generate and insert a unique subdomain address with a single click.

Why would I ever choose another method that takes more time and attention? So that I can assign an expiration to the address? I don't see substantial value there. Supposing your unexpiring subdomain address does eventually receive spam. When that happens, all you have to do is block that subdomain address, which takes all of 45 seconds. In fact, I like to receive that spam (once), because it provides valuable information about whom I should not trust with personal data.

robmueller · 28 Sep 2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfinlayson

For example, when I'm filling out a form at the DMV with a 5-year-old yanking on my pant-leg, there's no way I'm going to be willing to log into a web site on my smartphone in order to generate a disposable address.

To make them truly useful, I'd like a firefox plugin that basically allows you to right click on a form field and say "Insert new disposable address".

Using a SOAP API, it would contact FastMail to create a disposable address, and popup a dialog with the address + an optional expiry data + a comments field (filled in by default with the site hostname).

So for the common case, generating a new address when you signup at a website would be just a right-click away...

Rob

**Sherry** · 28 Sep 2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

To make them truly useful, I'd like a firefox plugin <snip>

Hmm, Firefox... (not IE)

Quote:

Using a SOAP API, it would contact FastMail to create a disposable address, and popup a dialog with the address + an optional expiry data + a comments field (filled in by default with the site hostname).

I don't know what a SOAP API is but if JS is used or any language to popup the window etc would it be possible to provide something like a "bookmarklet" that would do all that? Like after putting the cursor in the field an IE user could click on the bookmarklet and get the same affect as Firefox users. I have a few that can do great things. Or even a IE plugin like you'd do for Firefox (or is that a much bigger/harder coding job?)

Sherry

n5bb · 28 Sep 2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherry

... I don't know what a SOAP API is ...

SOAP is a protocol for exchanging XML messages over computer networks. So Rob is saying that SOAP would be a good communication method which the browser add-on would use to securely talk to Fastmail asking for a new disposable address for your account. There are several methods to integrate such an add-on with a web browser.

FastCheck uses SOAP to communicate with Fastmail. For more information:
FastServices Forum
Ideas for FastServices (where I see posts from you, Sherry)

Bill

**Sherry** · 28 Sep 2007, 12:33 PM

Thanks Bill. I knew my TV Guide grabber uses SOAP and that it had something to do with the xml file it gets however your explanation ties it in better for me.

Eric (spiderman) said he could put getting the disposable address in FC (I think that was in this thread) so that should also be a quick way to grab them.

As for the link on me. You can see I'm always asking about a feature on a "just in case" basis. You never know unless you ask.

Sherry

20 Aug 2007, 10:42 PM	#77
Zarquon Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3	All for it Well, I'm using disposable addresses very much the like mailshell.com once offered. I'm doing this with my own domain. Like, every registration I need to make, every evendor I deal with, gets a personalized address in the form of vendor@mydomain.tld. Some of these addresses are shortlived, some are in use for a very long time. Nonetheless, it would be great if the features (expiry etc.) already listed would become available. Perhaps also for own domains/subdomains, eg. vendor@disposable.mydomain.tld

2 Sep 2007, 06:14 AM	#82
Sherry Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8,687	Hi hadaso, Isn't everything you want already available using Aliases/SubDomains? To me a disposable address is there to be used until you have a need to dispose of it to stop all email at the external SMTP level... Sherry EDIT: Just realized the Aliases won't work on the external SMTP level but still, shouldn't the ability to do what you want be incorporated into aliases instead of disposable addresses? Last edited by Sherry : 2 Sep 2007 at 06:25 AM.

20 Aug 2007, 05:41 PM	#76
aaronlawrence Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 116	Darn I forgot to mention. Sneakemail has some important options for how to handle addresses, indeed there is a surprising amount of control. But basically they give you the option to allow, silently delete mail, defer (like greylist) or bounce a particular address, and in addition you can delete the actual address. In these spam-deluged times silently delete is probably the only fair one, otherwise you would be making backscatter if bouncing.

23 Aug 2007, 02:35 AM	#79
ao1 Essential Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 327	SpamGourmet works for me

2 Sep 2007, 05:52 AM	#81
hadaso The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Holon, Israel. Posts: 4,857	I'm not sure the way I've been using spamgourmet is really good. I put posted lots of different addresses around different forums/blogs/talkbacks and some of them have been spammed until they reached their limit, so now there are posts with an address of mine that accept mail and silently discards it. It would have been better if the addresses have been blocked (i.e. rejected like sneakemail addresses). The way it is people might find a post using a search engine, send mail, and would be sure that it was received. The kind of "disposable address" I really want is one where I can selectively block it with an (SMTP) error message that says something about how I can be contacted (such as providing a new disposable address that is not blocked but can be blocked in the same way later or just point to a web page were contact info or contact form is available). This way humans would still be able to reach me and bots would not. The way I want it to work is that addresses are created when they receive mail (like spamgourmet, no need to predefine them) and the status of each address can later be changed to either "block and give contact info" or "just block". If I want to do this in FastMail I would need a way to tell the external SMTP server exactly which addresses to block and to provide a custom error message to go with it. Then I would probably set it to provide an alternate address and change this address if it receives spam. I already have several addresses that I want to work this way (they are getting lots of spam, are not in use for quite some time, but are still posted in places were people might ask work related question, and also might be in the addressbooks of some people that might have a need to contact me in work related matters (such as students from previous semesters). Anyway, I think a bounce message that gives info about how the person can be contacted is superior to one that is just saying "user not in local recipient table" (if the person wants to be contacted by non-spammers) and I think it can be an anti-spam tool that works better than challenge/response and better than silently discarding mail (I can think of other uses like environment friendly vacation message, but this is a bit OT).

26 Sep 2007, 11:37 PM	#83
Gankaku Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 3,265	Just adding my 2cents here. This is a feature I'd use lots. I've been using jetable.org for years because of its simplicity and convenience. You enter in the email address where you want your mail to go to (in my instance, my fastmail account), the number of days you want the address to be valid (there's a dropdown menu of days that you select) and that's it! You get a generated email address consisting of letters_and_numbers@jetable.org for you to copy and paste. If you implemented something as simple it'd be wonderful.

28 Sep 2007, 12:33 PM	#90
Sherry Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: USA Posts: 8,687	Thanks Bill. I knew my TV Guide grabber uses SOAP and that it had something to do with the xml file it gets however your explanation ties it in better for me. Eric (spiderman) said he could put getting the disposable address in FC (I think that was in this thread) so that should also be a quick way to grab them. As for the link on me. You can see I'm always asking about a feature on a "just in case" basis. You never know unless you ask. Sherry