Anybody leaving for Gmail IMAP? - Page 12

hadaso · 27 Oct 2008, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n5bb

...

... You can also set up your Junk Mail folder to auto-report the messages in that folder as spam and auto-purge after a selected time interval (in the Options>Folders screen).

...

Also important is to set (using the same Options>Folders screen) the folders were only non-spam is kept to "Spam learning: As non-spam" (in that screen select the desired folders, click "Edit" and set the non-spam-learning property). That way the software always knows the most up to date info on your legit email and on the kind of spam your account receives.

jasandal · 5 Nov 2008, 09:06 PM

(I'd been on earlier with a different username, and lost the info. Duh.)

Was going to reply about the spam issue, but just saw and am tinkering with the new interface. Mmmm, this will have me rethinking any decision to leave.

I love my FM email service, and the new interface looks to add a few stars in my eyes.

JMac · 6 Nov 2008, 03:55 AM

Plus, you may want to eliminate the rule that marks the message as "Spam" in the Subject and header.

Reason? If you get false positives and mark them as "Not Spam" it does NOT remove those Spam tags. I wrote support about this last year and was told that those tags cannot be removed. So if you had any hopes of replying or forwarding a message that mistakenly - or over-aggressively - got tagged as spam you're out of luck. With the spam tags the message won't make it through anyone else's servers.

Jim

Lnguyen · 7 Nov 2008, 04:58 AM

I will add to this thread... I left for gmail. Not for IMAP though, but for the interface (well, mainly the ability to search ALL my mail quickly).

But with the few reports of lock outs that are seemingly difficult to reverse, and little contact from google support (unless you're a paying Apps member), it's made me re-evaluate coming back here.

Multiple personalities is also handled MUCH MUCH better here, and my recent attempt at using gmail as a total catch all has left me a bit unsatisfied. So is filtering ability.

But gmail's spam protection has always been top notch for me, hopefully FM hasn't fallen behind.

jasandal · 8 Nov 2008, 12:41 AM

Jim and guys, the explanations you guys gave me just reinforced what I'd said about spam control. Gmail does it almost flawlessly without my having to lift a finger. I think I remember one legit email that got caught in the spam filter, and I almost never have a spam appearing in the inbox. So why is it FM can't catch an email with an address like V83flxit0mwq@whatever.com with a subject line like Rgh4j7lkp3wxz? Forgive my saying it, but there's no excuse for letting that slip by. Ever. And I get them all the time. After FM tech support tinkered with my spam filter, twice.

The beta interface is buggy sometimes, but I like it.

Lnguyen · 5 Dec 2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasandal

The beta interface is buggy sometimes, but I like it.

Hence, beta

But I agree with ya. I am still in limbo on upgrading back to an enhanced account. I worry my gmail account will get locked for no reason. It wouldn't be a problem if google actually responded, but I think support is left to the paid google apps folks. Which wouldn't be too bad, but if I'm paying, I think fastmail would be a better bet (mainly for the personalities).

JMac · 6 Dec 2008, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasandal

Jim and guys, the explanations you guys gave me just reinforced what I'd said about spam control. Gmail does it almost flawlessly without my having to lift a finger. I think I remember one legit email that got caught in the spam filter, and I almost never have a spam appearing in the inbox. So why is it FM can't catch an email with an address like V83flxit0mwq@whatever.com with a subject line like Rgh4j7lkp3wxz? Forgive my saying it, but there's no excuse for letting that slip by. Ever. And I get them all the time. After FM tech support tinkered with my spam filter, twice.

The beta interface is buggy sometimes, but I like it.

The Gmail Spam filter does catch most spam, but it also does have its share of false positives. And NO amount of "training" will fix them - mainly because there is no facility for training it. You can mark a message as "Not Spam" but that only moves it back into your Inbox; it doesn’t train the Spam filters.

Jim

Merovingian · 6 Dec 2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasandal

Gmail does it almost flawlessly without my having to lift a finger. I think I remember one legit email that got caught in the spam filter, and I almost never have a spam appearing in the inbox.

I use both gmail (mostly for backup/search) and fastmail. Today in my gmail account, I had 14 emails in junk/spam folder !! That is just totally unacceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMac

The Gmail Spam filter does catch most spam, but it also does have its share of false positives. And NO amount of "training" will fix them - mainly because there is no facility for training it. You can mark a message as "Not Spam" but that only moves it back into your Inbox; it doesn’t train the Spam filters.

Jim

yes, as evidenced above, it happens to me all the time. I love Fastmail's filters and training ability.

pomj · 8 Dec 2008, 07:05 AM

I'm leaving for gmail not because imap but because I use the webinterface all the time and during the 5years I've had my account none of the improvements I've been advocating has been implemented...

threaded view is a dealbreaker for me. it is soo nice when you need to follow a long conversation. Global search is also a thing that I've wanted for a long time.

Now when the webinterfacre gets an ovehaul I think it's just cosmetic changes no real improvements. not good enough for me anyway.

Apart from that I have only good things to say about fastmail and I still recommend it (together with gmail) to people who are searching for a good mailservice.

cheers

brong · 8 Dec 2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pomj

I'm leaving for gmail not because imap but because I use the webinterface all the time and during the 5years I've had my account none of the improvements I've been advocating has been implemented...

threaded view is a dealbreaker for me. it is soo nice when you need to follow a long conversation. Global search is also a thing that I've wanted for a long time.

Now when the webinterfacre gets an ovehaul I think it's just cosmetic changes no real improvements. not good enough for me anyway.

Apart from that I have only good things to say about fastmail and I still recommend it (together with gmail) to people who are searching for a good mailservice.

cheers

Well, we have global search in the new interface now, and a pretty nice extended search syntax to allow you to pick exactly the messages you want.

I've wanted threaded as well, but it won't make this round of changes.

marcus0263 · 8 Dec 2008, 08:13 AM

Nope, been very happy with them for a long time. They're fast, secure and reliable, that's what counts. In fact I'm moving my family website MX hosting from Gmail to Fastmail. Gmail has been too flakey and unreliable.

rabarberski · 8 Dec 2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasandal

So why is it FM can't catch an email with an address like V83flxit0mwq@whatever.com with a subject line like Rgh4j7lkp3wxz? Forgive my saying it, but there's no excuse for letting that slip by. Ever.

Don't be misguided by the apparent easy by which you are able to see this is a bogus address!

While it is very easy for humans to detect V83flxit0mwq as nonsense, I image it is much harder for a computer to do so.
A lot of things that seem easy for us (recognizing faces, ...) are hard or currently impossible for computers, while things that seem hard for us (math, chess) are sometimes remarkably easy for computers nowadays.

(What makes "V83flxit0mwq" so obviously wrong as a normal emailaddress? I'd say it is because it doesn't match with any common name or word we humans know of. So making the computer check this against a list of all known names or words seems like an straightforward solution, but just think of all your friends with "strange" emailaddress like theman1990@... or jasandal@... That would certainly not be in that list.
Google, on the other hand, has an unimaginable large database - scrapped from emails , search terms, websites, calendars, ... - with lots of words and expression to tinker with. As an example, "jasandal" does turn up as a google search on a twitter page, giving a good indication to Google that this might be a genuine name)

hadaso · 8 Dec 2008, 05:03 PM

I use use addresses with "random" letters+numbers (sneakemail generates them). Spammers are much less likely to generate these. They do use dictionary words and combination of such to locate working email addresses that are not listed where they can find them in other ways. I don't think classifying and email as "obvious spam" just because the address uses semi-random letters/numbers is the right way to handle spam. On the other hand I'm quite positive the SpamAssassin gives some points for such elements, so they do contribute to the message "spamminess", but without other "spammy" criteria. And finally: I get in my gmail address that I never published more spam than I get in FastMail in some addresses that I carelessly published in public places on the web. I also subscribed several addresses on a Fastmail subdomain with a spammer and never got any spam there. I did get lots of spam from that spammer on other addresses I forward to FastMail, so I think FastMail's basic spam blocking (that applies to everyone, including guests) works very well against spambot based spam.
I see more false positives on Gmail than on FastMail (but that's because in FastMail I can control how I treat spam. In Gmail I cannot). And there was evidence shown here in the forums that some email that makes it into Gmail doesn't make it to the mailbox (nor even the spambox). FastMail's policy is that anything that is accepted (that is not rejected with an error message) is delivered to the user (that can then have it discarded through spam handling options or discard rules, but that's controlable by the user).

pomj · 8 Dec 2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brong

Well, we have global search in the new interface now, and a pretty nice extended search syntax to allow you to pick exactly the messages you want.

hmmm. the global search does not for me. what do you mean with global search? My definition is all of your account, IE searching through all folders.

8 Dec 2008, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabarberski

Don't be misguided by the apparent easy by which you are able to see this is a bogus address!

While it is very easy for humans to detect V83flxit0mwq as nonsense, I image it is much harder for a computer to do so.
A lot of things that seem easy for us (recognizing faces, ...) are hard or currently impossible for computers, while things that seem hard for us (math, chess) are sometimes remarkably easy for computers nowadays.

(What makes "V83flxit0mwq" so obviously wrong as a normal emailaddress? I'd say it is because it doesn't match with any common name or word we humans know of. So making the computer check this against a list of all known names or words seems like an straightforward solution, but just think of all your friends with "strange" emailaddress like theman1990@... or jasandal@... That would certainly not be in that list.
Google, on the other hand, has an unimaginable large database - scrapped from emails , search terms, websites, calendars, ... - with lots of words and expression to tinker with. As an example, "jasandal" does turn up as a google search on a twitter page, giving a good indication to Google that this might be a genuine name)

That is the reason that Irony and Sarcasm can not be detected by a computer (or other expressionless AI) as it demand the need of other elements, should as sound of the voice, facial expression ad infinitum.

The name "V83flxit0mwq" could simple be someones name, as thhis database would have to have ALL LANGUAGES and ALL VARIATIONS in existence.. Obviously, that is not possible. English is not the only language to begin with, and names that may seem "odd" to you may not be.

Not to mention scugger82@hotmail.com sure as heck look like a SPAM mail to me, but may be the girlfriend/boyfriends personal mailaddress. The human mind is a wonderful, and most often, weird thing.

And you want our SPAM filter to be equal to it.. Comeone.

5 Nov 2008, 09:06 PM	#167
jasandal Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4	(I'd been on earlier with a different username, and lost the info. Duh.) Was going to reply about the spam issue, but just saw and am tinkering with the new interface. Mmmm, this will have me rethinking any decision to leave. I love my FM email service, and the new interface looks to add a few stars in my eyes.

6 Nov 2008, 03:55 AM	#168
JMac Essential Contributor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: USA Posts: 377	Plus, you may want to eliminate the rule that marks the message as "Spam" in the Subject and header. Reason? If you get false positives and mark them as "Not Spam" it does NOT remove those Spam tags. I wrote support about this last year and was told that those tags cannot be removed. So if you had any hopes of replying or forwarding a message that mistakenly - or over-aggressively - got tagged as spam you're out of luck. With the spam tags the message won't make it through anyone else's servers. Jim

7 Nov 2008, 04:58 AM	#169
Lnguyen Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 217	I will add to this thread... I left for gmail. Not for IMAP though, but for the interface (well, mainly the ability to search ALL my mail quickly). But with the few reports of lock outs that are seemingly difficult to reverse, and little contact from google support (unless you're a paying Apps member), it's made me re-evaluate coming back here. Multiple personalities is also handled MUCH MUCH better here, and my recent attempt at using gmail as a total catch all has left me a bit unsatisfied. So is filtering ability. But gmail's spam protection has always been top notch for me, hopefully FM hasn't fallen behind.

8 Nov 2008, 12:41 AM	#170
jasandal Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4	Jim and guys, the explanations you guys gave me just reinforced what I'd said about spam control. Gmail does it almost flawlessly without my having to lift a finger. I think I remember one legit email that got caught in the spam filter, and I almost never have a spam appearing in the inbox. So why is it FM can't catch an email with an address like V83flxit0mwq@whatever.com with a subject line like Rgh4j7lkp3wxz? Forgive my saying it, but there's no excuse for letting that slip by. Ever. And I get them all the time. After FM tech support tinkered with my spam filter, twice. The beta interface is buggy sometimes, but I like it.

8 Dec 2008, 07:05 AM	#174
pomj Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 69	I'm leaving for gmail not because imap but because I use the webinterface all the time and during the 5years I've had my account none of the improvements I've been advocating has been implemented... threaded view is a dealbreaker for me. it is soo nice when you need to follow a long conversation. Global search is also a thing that I've wanted for a long time. Now when the webinterfacre gets an ovehaul I think it's just cosmetic changes no real improvements. not good enough for me anyway. Apart from that I have only good things to say about fastmail and I still recommend it (together with gmail) to people who are searching for a good mailservice. cheers

8 Dec 2008, 08:13 AM	#176
marcus0263 Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Seattle Posts: 594	Nope, been very happy with them for a long time. They're fast, secure and reliable, that's what counts. In fact I'm moving my family website MX hosting from Gmail to Fastmail. Gmail has been too flakey and unreliable.

8 Dec 2008, 05:03 PM	#178
hadaso The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Holon, Israel. Posts: 4,856	I use use addresses with "random" letters+numbers (sneakemail generates them). Spammers are much less likely to generate these. They do use dictionary words and combination of such to locate working email addresses that are not listed where they can find them in other ways. I don't think classifying and email as "obvious spam" just because the address uses semi-random letters/numbers is the right way to handle spam. On the other hand I'm quite positive the SpamAssassin gives some points for such elements, so they do contribute to the message "spamminess", but without other "spammy" criteria. And finally: I get in my gmail address that I never published more spam than I get in FastMail in some addresses that I carelessly published in public places on the web. I also subscribed several addresses on a Fastmail subdomain with a spammer and never got any spam there. I did get lots of spam from that spammer on other addresses I forward to FastMail, so I think FastMail's basic spam blocking (that applies to everyone, including guests) works very well against spambot based spam. I see more false positives on Gmail than on FastMail (but that's because in FastMail I can control how I treat spam. In Gmail I cannot). And there was evidence shown here in the forums that some email that makes it into Gmail doesn't make it to the mailbox (nor even the spambox). FastMail's policy is that anything that is accepted (that is not rejected with an error message) is delivered to the user (that can then have it discarded through spam handling options or discard rules, but that's controlable by the user).