Facebook looking at buying Opera? I sure hope not! - Page 4

nfnaaron · 27 May 2012, 03:14 AM

If it happens I'll leave fastmail also. But not because my email will be on facebook. You can't avoid having your email on facebook or gmail or wherever. If you correspond with a gmail or facebookmail user, then that email is on gmail's or fb's servers. Nothing you can do about it short of boycotting your friends and associates that use those services, and that would be silly.

My reasons for not using gmail or fbmail are related to customer service. gmail/google is famous for being a deaf monolith when they suddenly freeze your account for reasons known only to them. Relatively rare, but if it happens to you then it's your personal disaster, not a mere statistic.

Facebook is famous for rolling out user-unfriendly policies and features, all designed to ... well, to **** people off, as far as I can tell.

To gmail and facebook, you are the product, not the customer. You're a consumer of ads.

To fastmail, you are the customer.

I trust fastmail to have my interests in mind, because they've proven themselves to have that attitude, and because *I pay them*. I pay for fastmail, therefore I'm the customer, not the product.

That trust and expectation goes out the window if fastmail comes under the control of facebook. And that's why I would leave.

I don't need to leave early, so my email wouldn't be on facebook. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the backups are kept for some number of months, so everything within N months would suddenly be owned by FB at the acquisition, even if you're in the habit of downloading and deleting immediately (as I am), and there's nothing you can do about that.

I've only been using fastmail for a few years, and as my primary provider only within the last year. But I am a very happy *customer*, and I would leave instantly if facebook or anyone similar gained control.

**Shelded** · 27 May 2012, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfnaaron

Nothing you can do about it short of boycotting your friends and associates that use those services, and that would be silly.

Ha, I did once enter a rule to reject anything coming from an AOL address, because I had never gotten anything from an AhOL that I wanted..

I am not worried about FB trolling my historical mail without my permission. After all, I can sue them for the hacking of my mail since I have not given them permission.

nfnaaron · 27 May 2012, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

I am not worried about FB trolling my historical mail without my permission. After all, I can sue them for the hacking of my mail since I have not given them permission.

It's not hacking if they own the tapes.

**Shelded** · 27 May 2012, 04:52 AM

I'm not sure about that. They have not paid me to use the info for other purposes. Those laws don't exactly follow common sense either way. Opera could post a new TOS without telling me, but if I close my account I should be able to say I'm not accepting the TOS with FB. IANAL.

kijinbear · 27 May 2012, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

I am not worried about FB trolling my historical mail without my permission. After all, I can sue them for the hacking of my mail since I have not given them permission.

From Fastmail's privacy policy:

Quote:

We will only disclose or use personally identifiable information where:
- Law enforcement agencies have either provided us with the required legal documentation or court order, or the disclosure or use is reasonably necessary for the enforcement of criminal law; or
- To protect and defend the rights or property of the Service Provider; or
- To enforce the terms of service; or
- To act to protect the interests of its members or others; or
- To facilitate a change of control of the Service Provider or the acquisition of the Service Provider's business by a third party, and to enable that third party to continue to provide the FastMail.FM services to you.
- You have given us your consent.

You've already agreed to give your personal information to anyone who happens to acquire Opera. Note that there's an "or" between each item on the list. So the last bit about consent doesn't apply to the items above. They don't need your consent to give your info to Facebook any more than they need your consent to give your info to a police officer who presents a valid warrant.

nfnaaron · 27 May 2012, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelded

I'm not sure about that. They have not paid me to use the info for other purposes. Those laws don't exactly follow common sense either way. Opera could post a new TOS without telling me, but if I close my account I should be able to say I'm not accepting the TOS with FB. IANAL.

Unless the original TOS that you agreed with, which likely included a clause that allows them to change the TOS without telling you, leads through any number of such changes to a TOS that allows them to use your data "for the purposes of running the business." In other words, anything they want.

**Shelded** · 27 May 2012, 05:00 AM

Ouch. I'm sunk!

I'll have to give up on the idea of suing FB. :/

Berenburger · 27 May 2012, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSS

I have opened a new account with RunBox, to try it out, and POBox is successfully forwarding my email to the new account.

I have backed up my FM email using Mailstore Home, and have copied my addressbook to a CSV file which I will upload to RunBox later today.

I now have to replicate my FM folder structure & aliases in RunBox - a big task.

All in all it will take many hours to migrate away from FM, but in the absence of any denial from Opera that is what I must do.

NJSS

Is that not a bit premature to do? What do we really know?

B4its2L8 · 27 May 2012, 05:37 AM

What we know is that many EMD members are email-ophiles, and one man's "premature" is another man's "perfect excuse to try something new" !

SethM · 27 May 2012, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B4its2L8

What we know is that many EMD members are email-ophiles, and one man's "premature" is another man's "perfect excuse to try something new" !

Isn't that the truth. Some people here have probably signed up with every notable provider just to compare them. I know there's at least one recent thread that details such a thing.

NJSS · 27 May 2012, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Is that not a bit premature to do? What do we really know?

We know that neither Opera nor FaceBook have said anything - which IMHO indicates that conversations are afoot.

That's enough for me; it takes time to replicate the folder structure & aliases which I use, although all email is now going to RunBox (as well as FM for the time being).

NJSS

ChinaLamb · 27 May 2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethM

Isn't that the truth. Some people here have probably signed up with every notable provider just to compare them. I know there's at least one recent thread that details such a thing.

which thread are you talking about? I may want to contribute...

SethM · 27 May 2012, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinaLamb

which thread are you talking about? I may want to contribute...

This one initially: http://www.emaildiscussions.com/showthread.php?t=64118

SethM · 27 May 2012, 10:31 AM

It's on Slashdot now too, with a link to an LA Times article.

"The anonymous source said Opera is talking to possible buyers and has instituted a hiring freeze, which The Next Web said "is a surefire sign that something big is about to happen -- or at least that Opera wants something big to happen."

The source could not confirm to The Next Web whether Facebook was one of the potential buyers, but did say such a deal would make sense.

A spokeswoman for Facebook said the company did not wish to comment on the rumored purchase; a spokesman for Opera said the company does not respond to market rumors."

ChinaLamb · 27 May 2012, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethM

This one initially: http://www.emaildiscussions.com/showthread.php?t=64118

Thanks, SethM, awesome thread.

Great link on the news - disappointing to say the least. :/

/cl

27 May 2012, 03:14 AM	#46
nfnaaron Junior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Colorado Posts: 4	Reason not to use facebook mail or gmail If it happens I'll leave fastmail also. But not because my email will be on facebook. You can't avoid having your email on facebook or gmail or wherever. If you correspond with a gmail or facebookmail user, then that email is on gmail's or fb's servers. Nothing you can do about it short of boycotting your friends and associates that use those services, and that would be silly. My reasons for not using gmail or fbmail are related to customer service. gmail/google is famous for being a deaf monolith when they suddenly freeze your account for reasons known only to them. Relatively rare, but if it happens to you then it's your personal disaster, not a mere statistic. Facebook is famous for rolling out user-unfriendly policies and features, all designed to ... well, to **** people off, as far as I can tell. To gmail and facebook, you are the product, not the customer. You're a consumer of ads. To fastmail, you are the customer. I trust fastmail to have my interests in mind, because they've proven themselves to have that attitude, and because I pay them. I pay for fastmail, therefore I'm the customer, not the product. That trust and expectation goes out the window if fastmail comes under the control of facebook. And that's why I would leave. I don't need to leave early, so my email wouldn't be on facebook. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, the backups are kept for some number of months, so everything within N months would suddenly be owned by FB at the acquisition, even if you're in the habit of downloading and deleting immediately (as I am), and there's nothing you can do about that. I've only been using fastmail for a few years, and as my primary provider only within the last year. But I am a very happy customer, and I would leave instantly if facebook or anyone similar gained control.

27 May 2012, 04:52 AM	#49
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,849	I'm not sure about that. They have not paid me to use the info for other purposes. Those laws don't exactly follow common sense either way. Opera could post a new TOS without telling me, but if I close my account I should be able to say I'm not accepting the TOS with FB. IANAL.

27 May 2012, 05:00 AM	#52
Shelded Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USA Northwest Posts: 3,849	Ouch. I'm sunk! I'll have to give up on the idea of suing FB. :/

27 May 2012, 05:37 AM	#54
B4its2L8 Master of the @ Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Hiding under my bed Posts: 1,465	What we know is that many EMD members are email-ophiles, and one man's "premature" is another man's "perfect excuse to try something new" !

27 May 2012, 10:31 AM	#59
SethM Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 142 Representative of: Rollernet.us	It's on Slashdot now too, with a link to an LA Times article. "The anonymous source said Opera is talking to possible buyers and has instituted a hiring freeze, which The Next Web said "is a surefire sign that something big is about to happen -- or at least that Opera wants something big to happen." The source could not confirm to The Next Web whether Facebook was one of the potential buyers, but did say such a deal would make sense. A spokeswoman for Facebook said the company did not wish to comment on the rumored purchase; a spokesman for Opera said the company does not respond to market rumors."