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Old 27 Mar 2014, 04:08 PM   #1
FredOnline
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Inside the shopping centre that tracks your every move

http://www.channel4.com/news/shoppin...ors_picks=true
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Old 27 Mar 2014, 04:29 PM   #2
drew
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Our News Media told us about it some 6 months
or more about it too. We took it rather cool and
did not feel much surprised. These firms combine
info from Credit card like Visa and Mastercard and
then what you bought that day.

Orwell would feel envy? Kind of cool that he was able to predict
so much that later became true

I see Political Correctness as a version of NewSpeak they make
that Orwell makes so much noise about. He was good at prediction the political future
indeed.

Now don't get me wrong here. There is something
very good about Political Correctness.

But when it get's fundamentalist then it is really bad.

Fundamentalism in all fashion is very bad ,

Last edited by drew : 27 Mar 2014 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 28 Mar 2014, 01:31 AM   #3
Dutchie007
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I always turn off my wifi when entering shopping malls that is IF I carry my Samsung Galaxy S3 android. Most free connections are very slow.....so it´s useless anyway imho. I also not have any 3G plan...way to expensive in paraguay. So I only use wifi.
But most of the times when I go to town I take my old Nokia brick phone with me.(still works like a charm)....you know were I live people get robbed (or worse!) if they see a nice smartphone..!! I avoid to flash it arround in public.

I also have an old Motorola V3 Razr clamshell.....still works.... But I don´t break it everytime I make a phone call...like on TV...hehehehehe

besides that...If i go shopping...I look at things and other people and don´t stare 55 min from every hour at my smart phone....;-)


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Old 29 Mar 2014, 09:41 AM   #4
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Drew, Orwell is good but "We" by Jevgeni Zamjatin is the real deal when it comes to dystopian novels. Zamjatin wrote his book in 1921, predating Orwell more than 20 years. Orwell has admitted to have been very inspired by the book when he wrote "1984".

1984 sounds not such a bad place or scenario in perspective. At least the folks live in regular apartments and have a name. In Zamjatin's book, apartment blocks have no walls but see-through glass as "wall" ; people have no name, only a number. Everything in life is based on mathemathical calculations: unfailable, so you can predict all and never end up surprised. Feelings, emotions and creativity are considered illnesses because they cannot be controlled or predicted. The book uses very poetic language, as if also relatively unimportant phrases had to sound really well written. It's the ultimate dystopian book and the starter of the genre. Orwell made a decent follow up, but Zamjatin goes way further in his bleak views.

That said, they did not use NewSpeak (a language which you can learn online through a website that has an online course in NewSpeak)



Anyway, I never use Wi-Fi , I assume that would make it relatively safe to walk around in this shopping center. But, for sure if they want to follow your every move, they'll find some way to do it.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 06:19 AM   #5
webecedarian
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Whenever I read things like this...and think of Orwell...it mystifies me that the country that gave us 1984 would have permitted things to come to this pass. I would have expected England to take one of the firmest stances against surveillance.

A surveillance writer I was listening to says that she bought some kind of special holder for her phone that shields it.

Thanks for the reading tip, Tsunami.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 07:20 AM   #6
communicant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webecedarian View Post
Whenever I read things like this...and think of Orwell...it mystifies me that the country that gave us 1984 would have permitted things to come to this pass. I would have expected England to take one of the firmest stances against surveillance..
I have often had the same thought, but alas, it seems (for reasons unknown) that the reverse is true. Indeed, England is a fertile field for this sort of thing, a fact that became evident many years before terrorism was so commonplace a threat. Note, for example, England's pioneering role in the proliferation and now near-universality of CCTV cameras that pry into every nook and cranny of life, even peering up from the bottom of trash receptacles to ensure that citizens are properly re-cycling their garbage.

Perhaps someday someone will advance a credible theory as to why the land of Magna Carta and the Mother of Parliaments is now so oddly welcoming of what can only be described as a sort of 'soft totalitarianism'. But that is a weighty question for another day.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 10:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by communicant View Post
I have often had the same thought, but alas, it seems (for reasons unknown) that the reverse is true. Indeed, England is a fertile field for this sort of thing, a fact that became evident many years before terrorism was so commonplace a threat.
As an American it may surprise you to learn that terrorism predates 9/11. In the UK It was much more commonplace in the 70's,80's and 90's than it is now. In those days it was mainly financed by two sources: Libya and "charitable" contributions that were made tax-deductible by the IRS. Hope that clears up the how.

I find it astonishing that people are picking-up on minor privacy issues, when the most striking parallel with 1984 is peoples being snatched off the streets and tortured.

Orwell said: "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." Who'd have thought that would be a US Army boot?

Last edited by DrStrabismus : 30 Mar 2014 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 30 Mar 2014, 04:56 PM   #8
Bamb0
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew
There is something
very good about Political Correctness.
Sorry but there is NOTHING GOOD ABOUT IT!!
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 07:47 AM   #9
communicant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrStrabismus View Post
As an American it may surprise you to learn that terrorism predates 9/11. In the UK It was much more commonplace in the 70's,80's and 90's than it is now. In those days it was mainly financed by two sources: Libya and "charitable" contributions that were made tax-deductible by the IRS. Hope that clears up the how.

I find it astonishing that people are picking-up on minor privacy issues, when the most striking parallel with 1984 is peoples being snatched off the streets and tortured.

Orwell said: "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." Who'd have thought that would be a US Army boot?

I have no wish to trespass on this forum's sensible 'no politics' rule, but I submit the following reply as a point of personal privilege (in the parliamentary sense). It was written in part as a reply to your original post, which you let stand for a significant length of time, during which it was available to numerous readers. I note that you have recently edited and shortened the original version, in which you went on and on with overwrought irrelevance about the specific techniques of water-boarding and said that if you were an American you would 'hang your head in shame', with the clear implication that I should do the same. That passage is gone now, but I see that you have chosen to let stand your gratuitous sarcasm about my supposed ignorance of the fact that terrorism existed prior to 9/11, a mean-spirited remark that is not worthy of reply. As for your assertion that the policies of the American tax authorities were 'mainly responsible' for financing terrorism in the UK during the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, I shall leave it to others to evaluate such an astounding and deranged declaration.

In any case, why do you automatically assume that I am an American? I don't believe that I have ever specified my nationality here (and there are many speakers of English who do not employ British orthographic conventions, so please do not claim that you inferred my nationality from spelling or punctuation).

Leaving that aside, what on earth does alleged American treatment of certain prisoners have to do with the question of the UK's penchant for universal surveillance? The answer, of course, is nothing whatsoever. Your response is merely a reflexive kneejerk reaction, which has no place in either logical debate or civil discourse.

As you have seen fit to drag a distasteful rhetorical red herring across the thread, the next time you are tempted in such a direction you might consider whether the pot might be calling the kettle black.

Here is a mere handful of relevant items, a shallow skimming of the surface of an ocean whose depths could have been fruitfully harvested in this particular connection:

IRAQ -

Allegations of UK Complicity in Torture CM 7714 - Gov.uk
https://www.gov.uk/ government/ uploads/ system/ uploads/ attachment_data/ file/ 238541/ 7714.pdf - SESSION 2008-09 HL PAPER 152, HC 230. Allegations of UK. Complicity in Torture. Presented to Parliament by the Secretary of State for the Home Department.
Allegations of UK Complicity in Torture - United Kingdom Parliament
www.publications.parliament.uk/ pa/ jt200809/ jtselect/ jtrights/ 152/ 152.pdf
Aug 4, 2009 ... House of Commons. Joint Committee on Human. Rights. Allegations of UK. Complicity in Torture. Twenty–third Report of Session. 2008–09.
UN rights experts criticize proposed UK investigation into torture ...
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.as...r=torture&Cr1= -
Dec 24, 2013 ... Two United Nations human rights experts today criticized the British ... rights experts criticize proposed UK investigation into torture allegations.
Al-Sweady inquiry hears father's allegations of torture by British troops
www.theguardian.com/ uk/ 2013/ mar/ 18/ al-sweady-torture-allegations-british-troops

NORTHERN IRELAND -

UK urged to probe Northern Ireland torture claims
www.presstv.com/ detail/ 2013/ 11/ 18/ 335292/ uk-urged-to-probe-ni-torture-claims/
Nov 18, 2013 ... A report says an ex-UK soldier has confirmed Northern Ireland torture claims, prompting calls for an inquiry.
BBC News - Former internees claim 'new evidence' of Army torture
www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-25137411
Jan 12, 2014 Allegations by human rights groups of 'systematic' torture by troops ... UK military commanders 'knew or should have known' that*...

KENYA -

Britain Acknowledges Colonial-Era Torture in Kenya - NYTimes.com
www.nytimes.com/ 2013/ 06/ 07/ world/ europe/ britain-colonial-torture-kenya.html
Jun 6, 2013 ... LONDON — In a remarkable admission that imperial forces tortured Kenyans fighting against British rule in the 1950s, Foreign Secretary*...
UK to compensate Kenya's Mau Mau torture victims
www.theguardian.com/ world/ 2013/ jun/ 06/ uk-compensate-kenya-mau-mau-torture
Jun 6, 2013 ... The British government recognises that Kenyans were subjected to torture and other forms of ill-treatment at the hands of the colonial*...

SUFFRAGETTES -

The force-feeding of suffragettes in British prisons over a century ago employed a mechanical device for forcing food down women's throats that would have been worthy of Torquemada. Introducing a retrospective journey through its archives, the Guardian commented: "As the force-feeding of inmates is condemned at Guantánamo Bay, we look back through the archives at how the British government reacted to hunger-striking suffragettes 100 years ago."

As for contemporary Britain, the UK security services seem to be at least as outrageously cavalier about civil liberties as any American service. To cite but one example, it was recently reported in the mainstream press that the GCHQ [the British surveillance agency equivalent to the NSA] captured webcam chat images from millions of Yahoo users.

Now, what was that disgraceful remark about an American army boot?

Before adjuring others to hang their heads in shame, you might do well to consider the Biblical injunction -- 'And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?'
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Old 31 Mar 2014, 02:29 PM   #10
Shelded
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Moderator: this thread should not exist but it is an example why we have a no-politics rule. IMO after the first post we went downhill and now someone's upset and ... TLDR. I would remove the entire thing except it may be instructive how things snowball. The rule about politics might also caution us about too much comment about someone else's culture.
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