Rest in Peace?

FredOnline · 12 Feb 2012, 08:30 PM

I don't intend to depress anyone here in the forum, and I apologise in advance if I do, but . . .

In the 21st century, much of our lives revolve around the internet, and I wonder if anyone out there has considered what should be done about their internet presence once they have shuffled off this mortal coil?

For example, not only e-mail or banking log-ons/passwords, etc. but also any music mp3's or similar files of value stored online?

I am talking about an individual presence - not a family or business one.

Would you consider, or indeed have you already made provision, putting all the relevant information in to your will, or would you have the attitude that you're not bothered - after all you won't be there to worry about it!

Tsunami · 13 Feb 2012, 07:50 PM

While sadly enough I have clinical depression and thus have faught depression since childhood onwards, I still consider life worthly enough to live that I hope to not disappear in the tomb in the near future. I'd still like to grow very old, as long as I am intellectually functioning I'd prefer to get as old as possible. The world's a big and beautiful place and even a 100 years is too short to fully discover it.

As for my internet activities... Haven't really thought about it I must say. My emails are nobody's business, but then those accounts would expire at some point due to the lack of sign-ins (as, when you're dead, you can obviously no longer sign in and read your emails). Forum accounts would I guess just remain inactive and suspended eventually for the same lack of activity. I don't use social networking so there's no worry there neither.

That leaves three things remaining:
- my writings
- my domain names
- my website

My writings are registered as my intellectual property, which means they remain protected as such until 70 years after death as per EU law. So while I have not registered them because of fear of death, by registering them I have in fact resolved this issue as well without even realising.

That leaves the website and domain. Since those promote my ideologies, my writings and my ethical believes, I would like to see those remain online as my very little bit of legacy on earth. I must however say I have no idea on how to get this done. Logically I would live longer than my family I would guess, and my parents are in fact the only ones I'd trust with this matter. I don't want any children, so no option to ask my offspring to look after my website. So I guess the best thing right now is to not think about doom and decay and hope that during the future I'll make some very good friends that I'd trust with issues like this (and hope at least one of them will live longer than me, because if I'd survive them all I'd be stuck again with the issue of not having any person to trust with keeping my website online)

Oh wait, there is the Internet Archive that automatically archives websites, isn't there? If so, then this could be a loophole in case there'd be nobody trustworthy enough to ask.

Now a small nuance: in the last moments of my life, I doubt that my website would be the first thing on my mind and this would be the subject of conversation when saying the final goodbye to my best friends. Also, not everyone sees death approach through illness, some die unexpectedly in for example a traffic accident ; in that case there's not even time to say goodbye. If I would have the chance to say a final farewell to my friends, I doubt that websites would be the subject of conversation.

The only thing my family know are
a) my stance about organ donation
b) my request not to have a big funeral service in church but just be buried without lots of attention
c) my request in which city I'd like to be buried

Never thought about websites and such when thinking about death.

I guess in a way everyone should have a testament, because you never know when the final day will come. Better play safe and have a testament made. However, what stops me from doing so is the cost. To pay an official notary to have a testament made up somehow sounds like a quite morbid thing, and I haven't really taken concrete steps towards doing so...

FredOnline · 14 Feb 2012, 03:22 AM

Thanks for your response to the post, Tsunami.

I was getting the feeling that the subject was perhaps too morbid for anyone to consider posting/voting.

For myself, approaching my twilight years, and all my immediate family now having passed on, I realize that I am no longer indestructable . . .

As I have always been an analytical type of person, I HAVE thought about what to do next.

Bank accounts? They're all internet based so I don't really have much in the house that would indicate to anyone my banking institutions, account numbers etc, especially for those (very) remote family members who could be found and called upon.

E-Mails? As you said, e-mails perhaps don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Websites? I have no commercial sites - just personal, interest, family memorial pages. I would like my websites to continue, perhaps, as a testament that I was here?

For someone to edit my personal website, to tell the world of my demise - now that is an interesting idea.

I'll have to think on that one!

janusz · 14 Feb 2012, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredOnline

Websites? I have no commercial sites - just personal, interest, family memorial pages. I would like my websites to continue, perhaps, as a testament that I was here?

For someone to edit my personal website, to tell the world of my demise - now that is an interesting idea.

Do a web search for internet cemetery and you'll find some suggestions....

Tsunami · 14 Feb 2012, 05:22 PM

That, or make sure other people will remember you and you end up having your own Wikipedia page by the time you die

I must say, my bank account hasn't even come into my mind ... As I said I don't want to have children, so obvious consequence would be not to have any heir. In theory, as per law in most EU countries, the money would go to family but if you don't have any offsprings the state in theory receives the money. I'd rather donate whatever money is left to a charity I support or so ; I guess a testament is inevitable in this case.

chrisretusn · 17 Feb 2012, 09:11 PM

I answered "I hadn't even thought about it", that is not quite true, in fact I have thought about, but the other two questions just don't fit.

Mostly in the area of notifying some of my long time internet friends of why I am no longer posting or communicating. I'd rather not leave them wondering what happen.

communicant · 18 Feb 2012, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisretusn

I answered "I hadn't even thought about it", that is not quite true, in fact I have thought about, but the other two questions just don't fit.

Mostly in the area of notifying some of my long time internet friends of why I am no longer posting or communicating. I'd rather no leave them wondering what happen.

I know several people who have made a list of the email addresses of those they want notified, along with the nickname that was used with each internet friend (if more than one name or nickname was used). Depending on the overall nature of a person's internet experience and the type of correspondence that was involved, the list is then given either to a family member (if the list contains no surprises or potential embarrassments), or to a trusted confidential friend or even a lawyer (if the list would reveal things the person would not have wanted to reveal to family members). The person receiving the list agrees beforehand that a series of notifications will be sent out when death occurs, perhaps from a disposable address created solely for that purpose (again depending on the nature of the contacts), with the messages saying something like "The person you knew on line as [insert appropriate nickname here] wanted you to know that he or she is permanently off-line, because of [insert agreed-upon wording here, depending on how much the decedent wished to reveal -- death, serious illness, or some other cause], and wanted to spare you any puzzlement about the disappearance, and to reassure you that the silence is not the result of any decision to ignore you or cause you distress. Please do not reply to this message, because no further information is available." Obviously the wording would vary considerably depending on many personal variables, but that is the basic idea -- to spare online correspondents from hurt feelings caused by wondering if they had been arbitrarily cut off by someone they had grown used to knowing on line.

FredOnline · 18 Feb 2012, 11:20 PM

This is a very good post from communicant.

However, it must be borne in mind that there is no proof of legitimacy in following this.

It is possible that someone could post the information of a demise purely for devilment.

janusz · 18 Feb 2012, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredOnline

It is possible that someone could post the information of a demise purely for devilment.

True.
But the same goes for sending the same false information by snailmail, or placing a premature obituary in a local newspaper.

communicant · 19 Feb 2012, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredOnline

However, it must be borne in mind that there is no proof of legitimacy in following this.

It is possible that someone could post the information of a demise purely for devilment.

Where human affairs are concerned, it is undeniable that there is always the possibility of devilment, whether on or off line. In this instance, however, the whole point was to devise a discreet way to notify online correspondents whose very existence, let alone their email addresses, would probably be unknown to the decedent's "real life" family. It is therefore highly unlikely that such a list could or would be compiled by someone other than the prospective decedent. Moreover, careful advance selection of a trusted friend or attorney as the person to make use of the list post mortem would prevent any mischievous or fraudulent notification. As for the same thing happening by snail mail or in a newspaper, in most places in the USA, precisely to guard against malicious pranks, newspaper death notices require confirmation by the officiating undertaker (or whatever euphemism they go by nowadays -- "undertaker" became "mortician" and then "funeral director," and I imagine that the gentrifying trend has continued). In any case, if fraudulent death notices did somehow get circulated, by whatever means, the very fact of their fraudulence would mean that their subject would still be around to contradict them. There are so many things to worry about in all areas of modern life, but I really don't think one ought to lose much sleep over the possibility that fraudulent notices of one's death might be disseminated as a prank.

FredOnline · 19 Feb 2012, 05:11 AM

I think that it would perhaps be better to use the main personal e-mail account of the person in question. It would seem to make more sense if someone were to receive the communication from a known source.

And the responsible trusted friend/attorney could also set up a (admittedly very long!) auto vacation reply on that e-mail account . . .

I had set up an e-mail account for my mother's use - she didn't actually ever touch a computer, but I used her e-mail account to administer her (admittedly few) online contacts.

When she passed on, I used her account to inform these contacts as necessary.

As regards informing, say, users in a forum (if you considered they would miss you and worry about you!), for the responsible trusted friend/attorney to post a message on the forum (using the existing log-in details of the person in question) - would that be considered acceptable?

bramhall · 21 Apr 2012, 02:23 AM

What happens to our digital property after we die? - an article from the Economist

drew · 21 Apr 2012, 07:32 PM

You have forgotten to include my category.

I have thought about it many times
but it is depressing to think it through
and I tend to avoid deciding on it.

So not sure what to vote for none applicable.

I care very much but have not decided on what to do.

I know a Christian Priest and she has high integrity and
by law she is bound to keep secrets so I trust she would
not give out my log in details to others and not log in
while me still alive so I could maybe give her the passwords
and usernames and urls too?

Like many of you have already suggested if one do search
there are commercial such services but for how long can they exist?

One would need some kind of long lasting commitment and
does commercial work that way.? When they loose the money
needed to keep it up they shut it all down. So better if one
could engage maybe some persons that can be trusted with that deed.

The Wayback machine that is related to a University maybe them
have loyalty enough to keep up such service? or was that just one individual?

Tsunami · 22 Apr 2012, 08:34 AM

Without wanting to discuss religion and breaking forum rules, but I would suggest against giving your details to ANYONE, priest or no priest. "Bound by law" does not guarantee anything. I would be stressed all the time if, while alive, someone has all my data. Now just think about this and ask yourself the question if this is not a bit more important than what happens with your data once you die?

And yes, the topic is a bit morbid, but then... death is the one thing none of us can avoid. So it's only normal to give it a bit of thought now and then. I don't want children so I have been wondering now and then what to do with my stuff regarding the fact of having no heirs. I'd rather donate my finances left to a charity I support than to any random person/organisation decided by someone else. Although most important to me is that the funeral --the farewell to life-- is done according to my wishes (I have a few songs I'd like to have played and since I wish no religious services I'm sure my preference for rock won't be an issue

) and then whatever happens to stored emails is the least of my worries. I won't be re-reading them anymore after all...

communicant · 24 Apr 2012, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bramhall

What happens to our digital property after we die? - an article from the Economist

That is a very interesting article. For those who prefer to paste in the URL rather than clicking on an embedded link, it is http://www.economist.com/node/21553011

BTW, I was a surprised to read that Gmail is willing to provide copies of emails to the executor of the estate of a deceased subscriber. Unless a dead person has directed in his will that copies of the emails in his account should be passed on to someone whom he names, it seems to me that Google is once again displaying its usual cavalier attitude towards privacy, even the privacy of dead subscribers. There was a case (also mentioned in the Economist article, I believe) in which the parents of a dead soldier attempted to gain access to his Yahoo account for sentimental reasons, but since they did not have the password Yahoo refused. That was a sad case, but I think Yahoo did the right thing, although I have no particular liking for Yahoo as a company. So be warned, Gmail users -- whatever is stored in your account(s) can be accessed by the executor of your estate after you die, whether you wanted such a thing to happen or not.

View Poll Results: Rest in Peace?
I hadn't even thought about it	4	66.67%
I have made legal provision for it	0	0%
I'm not bothered what happens with it	2	33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

12 Feb 2012, 08:30 PM	#1
FredOnline The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 2,616	Rest in Peace? I don't intend to depress anyone here in the forum, and I apologise in advance if I do, but . . . In the 21st century, much of our lives revolve around the internet, and I wonder if anyone out there has considered what should be done about their internet presence once they have shuffled off this mortal coil? For example, not only e-mail or banking log-ons/passwords, etc. but also any music mp3's or similar files of value stored online? I am talking about an individual presence - not a family or business one. Would you consider, or indeed have you already made provision, putting all the relevant information in to your will, or would you have the attitude that you're not bothered - after all you won't be there to worry about it!

17 Feb 2012, 09:11 PM	#6
chrisretusn Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philippines Posts: 846	I answered "I hadn't even thought about it", that is not quite true, in fact I have thought about, but the other two questions just don't fit. Mostly in the area of notifying some of my long time internet friends of why I am no longer posting or communicating. I'd rather not leave them wondering what happen. Last edited by chrisretusn : 7 Sep 2012 at 08:48 PM.

13 Feb 2012, 07:50 PM	#2
Tsunami The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown Posts: 2,341	While sadly enough I have clinical depression and thus have faught depression since childhood onwards, I still consider life worthly enough to live that I hope to not disappear in the tomb in the near future. I'd still like to grow very old, as long as I am intellectually functioning I'd prefer to get as old as possible. The world's a big and beautiful place and even a 100 years is too short to fully discover it. As for my internet activities... Haven't really thought about it I must say. My emails are nobody's business, but then those accounts would expire at some point due to the lack of sign-ins (as, when you're dead, you can obviously no longer sign in and read your emails). Forum accounts would I guess just remain inactive and suspended eventually for the same lack of activity. I don't use social networking so there's no worry there neither. That leaves three things remaining: - my writings - my domain names - my website My writings are registered as my intellectual property, which means they remain protected as such until 70 years after death as per EU law. So while I have not registered them because of fear of death, by registering them I have in fact resolved this issue as well without even realising. That leaves the website and domain. Since those promote my ideologies, my writings and my ethical believes, I would like to see those remain online as my very little bit of legacy on earth. I must however say I have no idea on how to get this done. Logically I would live longer than my family I would guess, and my parents are in fact the only ones I'd trust with this matter. I don't want any children, so no option to ask my offspring to look after my website. So I guess the best thing right now is to not think about doom and decay and hope that during the future I'll make some very good friends that I'd trust with issues like this (and hope at least one of them will live longer than me, because if I'd survive them all I'd be stuck again with the issue of not having any person to trust with keeping my website online) Oh wait, there is the Internet Archive that automatically archives websites, isn't there? If so, then this could be a loophole in case there'd be nobody trustworthy enough to ask. Now a small nuance: in the last moments of my life, I doubt that my website would be the first thing on my mind and this would be the subject of conversation when saying the final goodbye to my best friends. Also, not everyone sees death approach through illness, some die unexpectedly in for example a traffic accident ; in that case there's not even time to say goodbye. If I would have the chance to say a final farewell to my friends, I doubt that websites would be the subject of conversation. The only thing my family know are a) my stance about organ donation b) my request not to have a big funeral service in church but just be buried without lots of attention c) my request in which city I'd like to be buried Never thought about websites and such when thinking about death. I guess in a way everyone should have a testament, because you never know when the final day will come. Better play safe and have a testament made. However, what stops me from doing so is the cost. To pay an official notary to have a testament made up somehow sounds like a quite morbid thing, and I haven't really taken concrete steps towards doing so...

14 Feb 2012, 03:22 AM	#3
FredOnline The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 2,616	Thanks for your response to the post, Tsunami. I was getting the feeling that the subject was perhaps too morbid for anyone to consider posting/voting. For myself, approaching my twilight years, and all my immediate family now having passed on, I realize that I am no longer indestructable . . . As I have always been an analytical type of person, I HAVE thought about what to do next. Bank accounts? They're all internet based so I don't really have much in the house that would indicate to anyone my banking institutions, account numbers etc, especially for those (very) remote family members who could be found and called upon. E-Mails? As you said, e-mails perhaps don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Websites? I have no commercial sites - just personal, interest, family memorial pages. I would like my websites to continue, perhaps, as a testament that I was here? For someone to edit my personal website, to tell the world of my demise - now that is an interesting idea. I'll have to think on that one!

14 Feb 2012, 05:22 PM	#5
Tsunami The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown Posts: 2,341	That, or make sure other people will remember you and you end up having your own Wikipedia page by the time you die I must say, my bank account hasn't even come into my mind ... As I said I don't want to have children, so obvious consequence would be not to have any heir. In theory, as per law in most EU countries, the money would go to family but if you don't have any offsprings the state in theory receives the money. I'd rather donate whatever money is left to a charity I support or so ; I guess a testament is inevitable in this case.

18 Feb 2012, 11:20 PM	#8
FredOnline The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 2,616	This is a very good post from communicant. However, it must be borne in mind that there is no proof of legitimacy in following this. It is possible that someone could post the information of a demise purely for devilment.

19 Feb 2012, 05:11 AM	#11
FredOnline The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 2,616	I think that it would perhaps be better to use the main personal e-mail account of the person in question. It would seem to make more sense if someone were to receive the communication from a known source. And the responsible trusted friend/attorney could also set up a (admittedly very long!) auto vacation reply on that e-mail account . . . I had set up an e-mail account for my mother's use - she didn't actually ever touch a computer, but I used her e-mail account to administer her (admittedly few) online contacts. When she passed on, I used her account to inform these contacts as necessary. As regards informing, say, users in a forum (if you considered they would miss you and worry about you!), for the responsible trusted friend/attorney to post a message on the forum (using the existing log-in details of the person in question) - would that be considered acceptable?

21 Apr 2012, 02:23 AM	#12
bramhall Essential Contributor Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 369	What happens to our digital property after we die? - an article from the Economist

21 Apr 2012, 07:32 PM	#13
drew The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,626	You have forgotten to include my category. I have thought about it many times but it is depressing to think it through and I tend to avoid deciding on it. So not sure what to vote for none applicable. I care very much but have not decided on what to do. I know a Christian Priest and she has high integrity and by law she is bound to keep secrets so I trust she would not give out my log in details to others and not log in while me still alive so I could maybe give her the passwords and usernames and urls too? Like many of you have already suggested if one do search there are commercial such services but for how long can they exist? One would need some kind of long lasting commitment and does commercial work that way.? When they loose the money needed to keep it up they shut it all down. So better if one could engage maybe some persons that can be trusted with that deed. The Wayback machine that is related to a University maybe them have loyalty enough to keep up such service? or was that just one individual?

22 Apr 2012, 08:34 AM	#14
Tsunami The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: in between the bright lights and the far unlit unknown Posts: 2,341	Without wanting to discuss religion and breaking forum rules, but I would suggest against giving your details to ANYONE, priest or no priest. "Bound by law" does not guarantee anything. I would be stressed all the time if, while alive, someone has all my data. Now just think about this and ask yourself the question if this is not a bit more important than what happens with your data once you die? And yes, the topic is a bit morbid, but then... death is the one thing none of us can avoid. So it's only normal to give it a bit of thought now and then. I don't want children so I have been wondering now and then what to do with my stuff regarding the fact of having no heirs. I'd rather donate my finances left to a charity I support than to any random person/organisation decided by someone else. Although most important to me is that the funeral --the farewell to life-- is done according to my wishes (I have a few songs I'd like to have played and since I wish no religious services I'm sure my preference for rock won't be an issue ) and then whatever happens to stored emails is the least of my worries. I won't be re-reading them anymore after all...