Protonmail as default mail address?

[Agx]

What do you think about Protonmail?

I think is a very good mail service that grow every year... but it can compete with other mail service like Gmail, Outlook or the best Fastmail?

Thanks

[popowich]

They have received a lot of media attention.

I don't think they're the best of the newer encrypted email service providers.

[pjwalsh]

Originally Posted by popowich

They have received a lot of media attention.

I don't think they're the best of the newer encrypted email service providers.

Your comparison table indicates ProtonMail does not use RSA 2048 keys, but they do.

As curator of that table, perhaps you shouldn't be making oblique comments as to which service you think is or isn't best. Your role should be impartial. Let a user decide based on the facts, their needs, and their experience.

Significant items that should be included in a comparison of encrypted email services:
[not a comprehensive list, these are items missing from the comparison table link above]

- sender IP suppression (Whiteout passes on the sender IP in the email headers)
- whether the service works with TOR (ProtonMail does, Scryptmail doesn't)
- whether PII (personally identifiable information) is required for registration (Whiteout requires the user's cell number)
- whether the user's private key is stored on the server
- whether the public PGP keyservers are used (convenient, but user's email is exposed)
- email expiration
- whether service login and mail encryption use separate passwords (less convenient, more secure)
- whether the encryption service can be used with the user's current mail service/address

I don't think your assessment of 'zero-knowledge' should be based on 'metadata encryption'. From and To headers will always be exposed at some point. Encrypting the subject seems a trivial issue, users for whom that is important should leave the subject line blank, and encrypting the subject will likely break OpenPGP interoperability, as it does with Tutanota. The more important metadata that should be suppressed is sender IP and email client.

Mailpile should be included in a comparison, and perhaps Mailvelope and Thunderbird/Enigmail too, to offer a complete survey of the encrypted mail options. Each has their strengths, and these three all allow continued use of one's current email service and address. Perhaps they belong in a separate category for that advantage.

The comparison table is useful to the degree it is comprehensive and accurate. It's shaping up nicely, you've expended time and effort on it, thanks for that!

[popowich]

As curator of the table, perhaps you shouldn't be making oblique comments as to which service you think is or isn't best.

I have documented quite a lot of detail, publicly, with/about protonmail.

You can search EQ (http://www.emailquestions.com/) for ProtonMail to find it.

I'll provide more info from their private conversations as needed if it makes sense.

They have a habit of over stating their features and going silent sometimes when direct questions are asked that challenge their statements.

I'll take another pass over their service and see what's changed.

[popowich]

The comparison table is useful to the degree it is comprehensive and accurate. It's shaping up nicely, you've expended time and effort on it, thanks for that!

It's a work in progress and I'll use the suggestions above to continue to improve it.

Thanks!

[popowich]

Originally Posted by pjwalsh

Mailpile should be included in the comparison. Perhaps Mailvelope and Thunderbird/Enigmail too, to offer a complete survey of the encrypted mail options.

I was on a roll and started a few charts over the summer.

I separated the mail programs/clients from the services - http://www.emailquestions.com/encrypted-email-programs/

There is a lot more work to be done on that one

Any suggestions appreciated!

It will help me not lose track of the info of the suggestions for the clients get posted here - http://www.emailquestions.com/thread...rograms.11087/ (that's not required but helps me not to have to loook in multiple places when I sit down to down the work)

Thanks! -Ray

[pjwalsh]

Originally Posted by popowich

I have documented quite a lot of detail, publicly, with/about protonmail.

Detail is good.

They have a habit of over stating their features and going silent sometimes when direct questions are asked that challenge their statements.

All will be inclined to some degree of self-promotion, it's getting to be a crowded field. We should be grateful for the options now available!

I read somewhere yesterday that ProtonMail has more than 500,000 users now, so I wouldn't take personally a lack of response. Sometimes a developer may want to resolve an issue before offering a reply, or reply in the form of a fix, especially if they are well aware of the deficiency.

[pjwalsh]

Originally Posted by popowich

I separated the mail programs/clients from the services - http://www.emailquestions.com/encrypted-email-programs/

Of course, that makes sense I hadn't made that distinction.

[Agx]

For me is important the choice of a good reliable mail provider and i'm evaulating Fastmail and Protonmail for my business mail account. (i don't use domain)

[pjwalsh]

For business mail, definitely FastMail at this point.

When you need encryption, and want to use the same email address, you can use Mailvelope or Thunderbird/Enigmail with your FastMail account.

ProtonMail is still beta and under development. It doesn't have anywhere near the features of FastMail, many of which are useful if not necessary for a business account.

[ProtonMail]

Hi all,

Sorry for not being responsive here. As others have pointed out, we dont really have a marketing team and are focused on developing ProtonMail. So forums such as these get easily overlooked by our team.

For direct questions, the best way to get a hold of us is via email and Twitter.

@protonmail
contact at protonmail dot ch

[pjwalsh]

Originally Posted by ProtonMail

Sorry for not being responsive here. As others have pointed out, we dont really have a marketing team and are focused on developing ProtonMail. So forums such as these get easily overlooked by our team.

For direct questions, the best way to get a hold of us is via email and Twitter.

Forums such as EMD are important to more technically adept users, and others looking for recommendations.

With the size of your team now, tasking one member to keep an eye on the ProtonMail threads here is just good business sense.

https://protonmail.ch/pages/about.html#about-team

[Agx]

I think most people want to know if you have a business plan... becuase too many email provider disappear after some year because they watch only the technical objective, and not an economical target

[Tsunami]

Originally Posted by Agx

I think most people want to know if you have a business plan... becuase too many email provider disappear after some year because they watch only the technical objective, and not an economical target

Exactly. I'd be keen on using an alternative to the "big three" (Microsoft, Yahoo, Google) but except for Safe-Mail.net and Mail.be I haven't seen any such services that have been stable and around for years.

Lavabit : disappeared, despite the idealism.
Autistici : very vague terms (eg regarding storage), doesn't give me the idea they have a solid business plan
Posteo : idem dito
Fastmail : survived only by becoming a paid-only provider (the accounts of those having a free account prior to the switch remain, but new sign-ups are paid only)



An alternative to the "big three" would be great, but not if it includes losing stored mails and having to notify everyone of yet another change of email address.

I agree with Agx : we need to look at technical sides, but also on economical sides, a very idealistic provider won't survive without solid plan that guarantees the service will continue to operate on the long term.

[popowich]

SCRYPTmail has a plan. The plan includes premium accounts. I think you'll like the new webmail and billing interfaces when they're released. They're a huge improvement and rewrite from the existing version. I think you'll also find some leadership in features an other areas as we get into 2016. If not, we're happy to hear feedback and continue to improve where needed. We're not in the same situation as some other providers that are currently depending on funding and donations to pay employees/contractors life expenses and work time. The cash burn that crippled some other services isn't a factor, since that seems to be one of your concerns. Please accept my invite to start a SCRYPTmail account and follow the progress this fall.