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FastMail Forum All posts relating to FastMail.FM should go here: suggestions, comments, requests for help, complaints, technical issues etc. |
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9 Nov 2018, 03:07 PM | #16 | |
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These settings are in all folders. But it looks like the Spam folder (and subfolders under it) are treated differently in that you can flag their contents as "not spam" while in all other folders you can flag stuff as spam and it will move to the spam folder. Training seems clearer for non-spam folders but can you define the exact effects of the Spam Learning and Auto-purge for both spam and non-spam folders? It's the timing that's got me confused. The system spam filers flag stuff as spam and put it into the spam folder on the way in. So how does doing anything with my settings affect correct possible mistakes other than flagging the mistakes as not spam? The more I talk about this the more I am getting confused. Didn't think it was so complicated. It's all your fault! |
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9 Nov 2018, 09:13 PM | #17 | ||
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9 Nov 2018, 09:43 PM | #18 | ||
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Spam Learning: When a folder — any folder — is set to "Learn as Spam," then the contents of that folder are scanned daily and added to the Bayes database as examples of spam messages. There used to be a way in the older UI to see the exact time when each folder was last scanned, but I don't think that's there anymore. Auto-purge: This feature simply removes messages automatically after a certain interval — either all messages, or only those unpinned (unflagged) messages. However, this is where the Spam folder is a special case —*not because of anything specifically magical about auto-purge, but simply because it's at the time of deletion from the Spam folder — either manually or automatically —*that a message is added to the Bayes database. Quote:
There are two stages to spam handling in Fastmail — spam detection and spam training. Spam detection is simply the process by which Fastmail identifies incoming messages as spam. This is done using a number of factors, one of which is your personal Bayes database. Messages that are detected as spam by Fastmail are put into the Spam folder, but they are NOT added to the Bayes database right away. This is to prevent the Bayes database from getting cluttered with false positives in the event that Fastmail gets a message wrong —*which of course it does from time to time, especially when you're first training it. Spam training is the process by which Fastmail learns what is spam and what is not. There are three ways that you can teach Fastmail that a message is spam:
In short, messages are only added to your personal Bayes spam database if they are manually reported as spam, left in a folder that's been set to "learn as spam" for at least 24 hours, or deleted from the system "Spam" folder. It's also important to understand that spam detection actually works with two lists — one list for spam messages and one for not-spam ("ham") messages. This is why false positives are a problem — if you have your default Spam folder also being used to learn spam, then every message in there will be added to the spam list, even if it shouldn't be. Later marking a legitimate message as "not spam" doesn't remove it from the "spam" list, but simply adds it to the "ham" list, so you end up with two conflicting entries —one that says that message is spam and one that says it's not. Note that if you're only using the Fastmail web interface, I can't see any reason to even concern yourself with the folder learning features. These are primarily for users of IMAP clients like Apple Mail and Thunderbird where there's no direct button to report spam to Fastmail. If you're using the web interface, the very best way to report a spam message is to simply click "Report spam" and be done with it (and vice-versa with the "Not spam" button for messages that are not spam). |
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9 Nov 2018, 11:14 PM | #19 | |
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The Bayes spam score is only one component of the spam score which is used to determine when to file messages into your Spam folder. It’s also possible for the address book whitelisting to be disabled if a message has been forwarded or for some other reason DMARC or other authentication measures fail. So it’s still possible for ham to appear in your Spam folder, especially if you reduce the threshold for the spam filter below the default value. So be sure check your spam folder for obvious ham before discarding messages from it. Bill |
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10 Nov 2018, 01:42 AM | #20 | ||
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I also keep the Archive folder marked to learn "not spam" but I don't think that's necessary either unless you're using an IMAP client (and maybe not even then). According to Fastmail's page on Improving spam protection (emphasis mine): Quote:
I also have a "HAM" folder on my account with a seven-day purge for training non-spam that I don't otherwise want to keep. Things like newsletters and notifications —*which I still want to land in my inbox but usually delete after reading —*get dropped into the "HAM" folder, where they'll be learned as non-spam and then automatically deleted afterward. |
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10 Nov 2018, 06:05 AM | #21 |
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10 Nov 2018, 06:57 AM | #22 | |
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My logic is that if I have simply moved the email to Trash, rather than marked it as spam, then it is Ham. |
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10 Nov 2018, 09:16 AM | #23 | |
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But I can see how that would work, other than the psychological aspect, as long as you don't ever manually delete anything from the spam folder in an IMAP client (in which case, that would end up in the trash), or of course forget to report spam messages as such, simply deleting them instead. |
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11 Nov 2018, 12:46 PM | #24 | |
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jhollington
Thanks for the post. It, in conjunction with the "Improving spam protection" Fastmail doc helped clarify this stuff up for me (I hope). With respect to the spam learning folder setting the Fastmail doc specifically talks about that in relation to email clients using IMAP. Quote:
Two final (I hope) questions:
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11 Nov 2018, 08:00 PM | #25 | |
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Last edited by BritTim : 11 Nov 2018 at 08:10 PM. Reason: add Monty Python reference |
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11 Nov 2018, 08:22 PM | #26 | |
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Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(food)?wprov=sfti1 |
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12 Nov 2018, 05:10 AM | #27 |
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Oh, that "ham". Gotcha. Thanks.
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12 Nov 2018, 06:59 AM | #28 |
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For the origin of the term “spam” with regards to email, see:
https://www.templetons.com/brad/spamterm.html The term “ham” is commonly used for non-spam. I’m an amateur radio operator, and we are also called “hams”. This radio related use of “ham” has a long history but the source of that term has been disputed for over 50 years. Bill |