Additional (Purchased) Storage

NJSS · 26 Apr 2007, 05:05 PM

FastMail has for some time charged a one time fee of $24.95 US per 100MB for additional storage.

May I suggest that the time has come to review this charge in the light of dramatically falling disk prices, and competitors' pricing?

Nigel

Berenburger · 26 Apr 2007, 09:55 PM

I need some extra file storage too, but I don't buy it. It is too expensive. I think FM is losing money here.

NJSS · 26 Apr 2007, 11:12 PM

In the UK the "street" price of a Buffalo 500GB 7,200 rpm Advanced Serial ATA (SATA) External Hard Drive is now about £100 = $200US.

I am told reasonably sized HDDs in the States cost between $0.40 & $0.45 per GB.

Whichever way you look at it $24.95 US per 100MB is excessive.

How about a substantial price reduction please FM?

JasonWard · 27 Apr 2007, 01:43 AM

Whilst $24.95 per 100mb is excessive, its not a true comparison to look at raw disk prices and say or think that Fastmail must be making a killing. Factors that increase the cost of the disks are many and include

1) Server disks are usually 100% to 1000% more expensive per GB than consumer class ones.
2) Your filespace is (and the disk) is hosted in a data centre, the disk just being there costs money.
3) Your filespace is backed up, again this costs Fastmail.
4) Your filespace is both a) raided and b) I believe also on a redundant server (ie for every 1mb of file storage you see, you may actually be using 4mb)
5) If the HD on which your files are stored fails Fastmail will replace it at their expense.

However, which ever way I cut it I cant make diskspace plus healthy margin add up to more than $20 per GB.

Jason

robmueller · 27 Apr 2007, 06:06 PM

A couple of extra things.

1. There's a pretty big sliding scale on the pricing 2G is $199.95 (eg 100M = $9.95)
2. The raw cost of disk is nothing compared to:
a) The IO requirements to actually get data on and off the disk
b) Make the disks redundant
c) Connect them to a computer to actually use them
d) Keep the disks and computer they're connected to powered up
e) Keep the disks and computer they're connected to cool
f) It's a single lifetime cost so it has to be amortised over all time

Basically the price for the storage is a proxy for a massive number of other factors. I can't remember last time this was calculated, but I believe it wasn't actually that far wrong from our actual cost... I'll get Bruce to check again.

Rob

hadaso · 28 Apr 2007, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

f) It's a single lifetime cost so it has to be amortised over all time

And that creates a barrier for the buyer. Some people might prefer to pay a much smaller recuring fee (that is hire extra storage when needed, release some when unneeded). Small business accounts might need this ability.

robmueller · 1 May 2007, 01:37 PM

I checked with Bruce, and the lifetime fee is about right. We could offer a considerably smaller "per-year" rate. The problem then is creating two separate classes of bought extra storage. The "fixed" cost extra storage, and the "recurring" cost extra storage. Of course it's doable, it's just a bit of a pain to manage. I guess we should think about it...

Rob

NJSS · 1 May 2007, 03:50 PM

Where please do we find the "sliding scale on the pricing"?

JasonWard · 1 May 2007, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

I checked with Bruce, and the lifetime fee is about right. We could offer a considerably smaller "per-year" rate. The problem then is creating two separate classes of bought extra storage. The "fixed" cost extra storage, and the "recurring" cost extra storage. Of course it's doable, it's just a bit of a pain to manage. I guess we should think about it...

Rob

I would prefer an annual fee, I've always found the lifetime costs both odd and off putting.

JasonWard · 1 May 2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSS

Where please do we find the "sliding scale on the pricing"?

Options->Purchase additional disk space

drchadwick · 2 May 2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robmueller

I checked with Bruce, and the lifetime fee is about right. We could offer a considerably smaller "per-year" rate. The problem then is creating two separate classes of bought extra storage. The "fixed" cost extra storage, and the "recurring" cost extra storage. Of course it's doable, it's just a bit of a pain to manage. I guess we should think about it...

Rob

Please do. I would be happy to pony up a few bucks a month to upgrade my storage, but honestly the idea of paying so much up front for a GB or two of "lifetime" storage is pretty unattractive when prices are going nowhere but down.

In fact, it's not inconceivable we could soon be seeing free storage from Google or someone.

drchadwick · 2 May 2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSS

In the UK the "street" price of a Buffalo 500GB 7,200 rpm Advanced Serial ATA (SATA) External Hard Drive is now about £100 = $200US.

Totally irrelevant. You're not factoring in the costs of maintaining and networking. And the drives FM is using are likely not the same consumer ones you buy.

fhapgood · 2 May 2007, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drchadwick

In fact, it's not inconceivable we could soon be seeing free storage from Google or someone.

Yahoo! is starting a transition to free unlimited storage this month and (I understand that ) AOL has been offering free unlimited since September. Of course Google will not be far behind. By this time next year the standard will be free unlimited.

Remember: hardware wants to be software and software wants to be free.

JasonWard · 2 May 2007, 03:26 AM

Amazon charge a whopping $0.15 per month per GB for storage with them, they offer some very neat services too.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=16427261

I would love for Fastmail (and many others) to provide hooks into Amazon S3 services, I'd love to have my files storage in S3 available through the tools offered by Fastmail, but also available to me via any other services or tools that use S3.

Jason

drchadwick · 2 May 2007, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonWard

I would love for Fastmail (and many others) to provide hooks into Amazon S3 services, I'd love to have my files storage in S3 available through the tools offered by Fastmail, but also available to me via any other services or tools that use S3.

No kidding. And we know it's possible because these guys are doing it:
http://www.jungledisk.com/

26 Apr 2007, 05:05 PM	#1
NJSS Master of the @ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,238	Additional (Purchased) Storage FastMail has for some time charged a one time fee of $24.95 US per 100MB for additional storage. May I suggest that the time has come to review this charge in the light of dramatically falling disk prices, and competitors' pricing? Nigel

26 Apr 2007, 09:55 PM	#2
Berenburger The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,908	I need some extra file storage too, but I don't buy it. It is too expensive. I think FM is losing money here. Last edited by Berenburger : 27 Apr 2007 at 12:39 AM.

26 Apr 2007, 11:12 PM	#3
NJSS Master of the @ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,238	Substantial Price Reduction - please In the UK the "street" price of a Buffalo 500GB 7,200 rpm Advanced Serial ATA (SATA) External Hard Drive is now about £100 = $200US. I am told reasonably sized HDDs in the States cost between $0.40 & $0.45 per GB. Whichever way you look at it $24.95 US per 100MB is excessive. How about a substantial price reduction please FM?

1 May 2007, 03:50 PM	#8
NJSS Master of the @ Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 1,238	Thanks Rob Where please do we find the "sliding scale on the pricing"?

27 Apr 2007, 01:43 AM	#4
JasonWard Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 834	Whilst $24.95 per 100mb is excessive, its not a true comparison to look at raw disk prices and say or think that Fastmail must be making a killing. Factors that increase the cost of the disks are many and include 1) Server disks are usually 100% to 1000% more expensive per GB than consumer class ones. 2) Your filespace is (and the disk) is hosted in a data centre, the disk just being there costs money. 3) Your filespace is backed up, again this costs Fastmail. 4) Your filespace is both a) raided and b) I believe also on a redundant server (ie for every 1mb of file storage you see, you may actually be using 4mb) 5) If the HD on which your files are stored fails Fastmail will replace it at their expense. However, which ever way I cut it I cant make diskspace plus healthy margin add up to more than $20 per GB. Jason

27 Apr 2007, 06:06 PM	#5
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	A couple of extra things. 1. There's a pretty big sliding scale on the pricing 2G is $199.95 (eg 100M = $9.95) 2. The raw cost of disk is nothing compared to: a) The IO requirements to actually get data on and off the disk b) Make the disks redundant c) Connect them to a computer to actually use them d) Keep the disks and computer they're connected to powered up e) Keep the disks and computer they're connected to cool f) It's a single lifetime cost so it has to be amortised over all time Basically the price for the storage is a proxy for a massive number of other factors. I can't remember last time this was calculated, but I believe it wasn't actually that far wrong from our actual cost... I'll get Bruce to check again. Rob

1 May 2007, 01:37 PM	#7
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	I checked with Bruce, and the lifetime fee is about right. We could offer a considerably smaller "per-year" rate. The problem then is creating two separate classes of bought extra storage. The "fixed" cost extra storage, and the "recurring" cost extra storage. Of course it's doable, it's just a bit of a pain to manage. I guess we should think about it... Rob

2 May 2007, 03:26 AM	#14
JasonWard Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 834	Amazon charge a whopping $0.15 per month per GB for storage with them, they offer some very neat services too. http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=16427261 I would love for Fastmail (and many others) to provide hooks into Amazon S3 services, I'd love to have my files storage in S3 available through the tools offered by Fastmail, but also available to me via any other services or tools that use S3. Jason