"I Was Wrong About Facebook"

webecedarian · 6 Mar 2023, 09:45 AM

I Was Wrong About Facebook
By Farhad Manjoo

I wasn’t just wrong about Facebook; I had the matter exactly backward. Had we all decided to leave Facebook then or at any time since, the internet and perhaps the world might now be a better place...

We’re still in the midst of the digital takeover of real life, and we’ll likely only know how all this plays out many years from now. And it might not matter now, anyway: Social networks are here to stay. But what bothers me is the matchless power that people like Zuckerberg have acquired through their inventions. It does not seem in any way good for society — for the economy, for politics, for a basic sense of equality — that a handful of hundred-billion-dollar or even trillion-dollar companies should control such large swathes of the internet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/o...-facebook.html

https://english.aawsat.com/home/arti...about-facebook

https://silk-news.com/2022/07/21/opi...bout-facebook/

Bamb0 · 6 Mar 2023, 11:39 PM

FB is the most aweful/intrusive site online!!

TenFour · 7 Mar 2023, 04:15 AM

Can't read the article with the paywall, but I have never liked FB. Just today I had to sign into it to do something and it reminded me how terrible it is just from a technical standpoint. Everything is disjointed and hard to navigate, and there are so many different items, options, settings, etc. it is impossible to set it up in a way that you like. It is entirely designed to force you to see whatever they have decided they want you to see, but I think they have also lost their own way with moonshots like the Metaverse and now AI. Frankly, I think the concept of a social network like FB is great, but the execution is terrible. What if instead you could just connect to those you wanted to connect with, all in a clean and uncluttered site with limited distractions? What if you just saw posts from those you want to communicate with and in the order in which they were posted?What if the entire experience wasn't designed to trap you in rabbit holes, maximizing your engagement?

hadaso · 7 Mar 2023, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

...What if the entire experience wasn't designed to trap you in rabbit holes, maximizing your engagement?

This cannot happen in a network that belongs to a single corporation, because the sole purpose of a corporation is to create profits for its shareholders, not to serve users, or customers. Since their network is a closed garden controlled by them and only by them, what they do is design it so that once you're in you become dependent on it for your communications with other people that's there, and then your records of your past communications also become hostage to them, and you are not able to disconnect without losing those records. I never joined Facebook or Whatapp or any of the others because I realized once I'm in people would use it as a way to communicate with me, and I would never be able to leave it and go elsewhere, like I can do with email (though I haven't in the past 20 years).
For a social network to be designed the way you describe it should be a protocol that connects sites that can be hosted by anyone, like email. But who would pay to create it, and to promote it in a way that would make enough people move over from the walled gardens they're used to?

TenFour · 7 Mar 2023, 05:57 AM

Quote:

But who would pay to create it, and to promote it in a way that would make enough people move over from the walled gardens they're used to?

I think there would still be profits to be made. For example, I used to purchase and subscribe to various photography magazines because I enjoyed reading the ads as much as I did the articles. I think this is the fatal flaw in many of these sites. They are selling ads based on some weird algorithm, so it means most of us see ads we don't want to see most of the time. Why can't I see boating ads if I am a member of a boating forum, or hiking equipment ads if I want to be part of the hiking forum? And then don't shove the ads in my face with pop ups, autoplaying videos, etc. Make them tasteful and fit into the page in a nonobtrusive way and I might see them, instead of blocking as many as possible as I do now. Another option would be social sites run like NPR, funded by donors big and small.

somdcomputerguy · 7 Mar 2023, 09:15 PM

I don't like fb much either. I first started to use it because some old friends and family used it, and only it, to 'socialize'. I soon found myself reading thru others posts because I was really interested in what they had for breakfast..

I have found this script to make fb easier for me to digest. I use the js version, although it has 'specific browser add-ons' as well.
F.B. Purity - Clean up and Customize Facebook - https://www.fbpurity.com/

There is another, Social Fixer, and there is probably more. I tried it once, but for some reason that I don't remember I found FBP better suited for me.

Bamb0 · 8 Mar 2023, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

Can't read the article with the paywall

This page lets ya read it

http://silk-news.com/2022/07/21/opin...about-facebook

TenFour · 8 Mar 2023, 08:27 PM

Quote:

This page lets ya read it

Thanks! The article is good, but doesn't identify the cause of the problem with big tech--it is too good! It wouldn't be used by so many so much if it wasn't good. So, what is the answer for the toxic fake information being spread everywhere? Frankly, I don't know, but it seems to me that companies need to be held liable for spreading fake news. They need to eliminate fake accounts, bots, and online scams. How to do that? I would argue that simply allowing people to control their own timeline would go a long way to eliminating the bad stuff. In other words, mandate that you can select to only see stuff from people you select and in the order it is posted. And then mandate how much and where advertising can be shown, and how much tracking is allowed and give individuals control over their own data in a clear dashboard. I might actually use FB if that was the case.

NumberSix · 27 Mar 2023, 03:28 PM

I'll sorta guiltily admit that I like FB and use it a lot. Not because it's good - it's bad, very bad, for all the reasons explained here and more. I hate Zuck and all his ilk. But I once in a used bookstore ran across a book called something like "I love my computer because all my friends live inside it". This sorta sums up my love-hate relationship with FB. I live in a rather remote location now, which is the sixth place I've lived in my life, and I've collected friends in all the other five who I like to keep in touch with and well.... FB is basically the only show in town (and of course MANY of them have scattered on from the places I met them to yet other places, as I have!)

After more than a decade in this Sixth Place, I don't have any good friends here, and sometimes I wonder if FB is to blame for that. (Realistically, maybe partially, but not entirely). Without it, I would feel lonely here, esp since the pandemic. But kudos and more power to those who have managed to avoid getting sucked in to the Network Effect.

To be a little fair to FB, it doesn't actually try to keep me in the rabbit hole any more. In various ways, in different parts of its interface, it essentially tells me: "there's nothing more here, stop scrolling and go do something else". Sometimes in explicit terms like that, sometimes not. But if I get up from the keyboard and go away for a little while, when I come back, often the first thing I do is go check FB again

TenFour · 28 Mar 2023, 01:34 AM

Quote:

I'll sorta guiltily admit that I like FB and use it a lot.

It's a tool that like many others can be used for good or not. It is sort of like alcohol. You can abuse it and drink too much and it won't be good for you, but a nice glass or two with a good meal and friends can be very enjoyable and will do little harm--might do you some good to unwind.

webecedarian · 11 Apr 2023, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenFour

Can't read the article with the paywall, but I have never liked FB. Just today I had to sign into it to do something and it reminded me how terrible it is just from a technical standpoint. Everything is disjointed and hard to navigate, and there are so many different items, options, settings, etc. it is impossible to set it up in a way that you like. It is entirely designed to force you to see whatever they have decided they want you to see, but I think they have also lost their own way with moonshots like the Metaverse and now AI. Frankly, I think the concept of a social network like FB is great, but the execution is terrible. What if instead you could just connect to those you wanted to connect with, all in a clean and uncluttered site with limited distractions? What if you just saw posts from those you want to communicate with and in the order in which they were posted?What if the entire experience wasn't designed to trap you in rabbit holes, maximizing your engagement?

I provided multiple links to help you avoid the paywall.

chrisretusn · 11 Apr 2023, 03:46 PM

I used to use Facebook a lot. I posted, shared stuff many times a day. My sister got a bit tired of seeing so many post from me so she challenged me to a friendly bet, that I would last more than a week without posting. That was on Feb 10, 2023. I won that bet, I have not posted since.

I decided primarily that was preaching to the choir or to friends who just plain won't change. My goal was get friends to at least think, that there are different takes on the issues.

Since I quit only one of my friends noticed I wasn't posting and asked if I was okay. I guess the rest are happy to see me gone.

When I say friends I mean folks I actually know, met in real life not on Facebook.

I have never been put in Facebook jail. I have been banned from going live for 30 days a few times (Not interested in doing that), told I couldn't advertise a few times (a strange one to me). I am currently in a Restricted Status, meaning my "post will be moved to lower in News Feed for at least 90 days". Like that has any real effect since I only share to Friends. In all cases these so called fact checks that put me on Restriction were provably wrong or a fact a check of something not even related to what I posted. I view it as censorship. My current 90 day counter which was reset back to 90 on Feb 1, expires around May 2.

hadaso · 11 Apr 2023, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisretusn

I have never been put in Facebook jail. I have been banned from going live for 30 days a few times (Not interested in doing that), told I couldn't advertise a few times (a strange one to me). I am currently in a Restricted Status, meaning my "post will be moved to lower in News Feed for at least 90 days". Like that has any real effect since I only share to Friends. In all cases these so called fact checks that put me on Restriction were provably wrong or a fact a check of something not even related to what I posted. I view it as censorship. My current 90 day counter which was reset back to 90 on Feb 1, expires around May 2.

Do we really want the board of directors of Meta (Facebook) to be the single regulator of (free?) speech on this planet?

chrisretusn · 12 Apr 2023, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hadaso

Do we really want the board of directors of Meta (Facebook) to be the single regulator of (free?) speech on this planet?

Not sure your point of this in relation to what you quoted from my post.

hadaso · 14 Apr 2023, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisretusn

Not sure your point of this in relation to what you quoted from my post.

The "Facebook jail" that restricts where you can be heard and what you may say.

6 Mar 2023, 09:45 AM	#1
webecedarian Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 483	"I Was Wrong About Facebook" I Was Wrong About Facebook By Farhad Manjoo I wasn’t just wrong about Facebook; I had the matter exactly backward. Had we all decided to leave Facebook then or at any time since, the internet and perhaps the world might now be a better place... We’re still in the midst of the digital takeover of real life, and we’ll likely only know how all this plays out many years from now. And it might not matter now, anyway: Social networks are here to stay. But what bothers me is the matchless power that people like Zuckerberg have acquired through their inventions. It does not seem in any way good for society — for the economy, for politics, for a basic sense of equality — that a handful of hundred-billion-dollar or even trillion-dollar companies should control such large swathes of the internet. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/o...-facebook.html https://english.aawsat.com/home/arti...about-facebook https://silk-news.com/2022/07/21/opi...bout-facebook/

27 Mar 2023, 03:28 PM	#9
NumberSix Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Village Posts: 616	I'll sorta guiltily admit that I like FB and use it a lot. Not because it's good - it's bad, very bad, for all the reasons explained here and more. I hate Zuck and all his ilk. But I once in a used bookstore ran across a book called something like "I love my computer because all my friends live inside it". This sorta sums up my love-hate relationship with FB. I live in a rather remote location now, which is the sixth place I've lived in my life, and I've collected friends in all the other five who I like to keep in touch with and well.... FB is basically the only show in town (and of course MANY of them have scattered on from the places I met them to yet other places, as I have!) After more than a decade in this Sixth Place, I don't have any good friends here, and sometimes I wonder if FB is to blame for that. (Realistically, maybe partially, but not entirely). Without it, I would feel lonely here, esp since the pandemic. But kudos and more power to those who have managed to avoid getting sucked in to the Network Effect. To be a little fair to FB, it doesn't actually try to keep me in the rabbit hole any more. In various ways, in different parts of its interface, it essentially tells me: "there's nothing more here, stop scrolling and go do something else". Sometimes in explicit terms like that, sometimes not. But if I get up from the keyboard and go away for a little while, when I come back, often the first thing I do is go check FB again Last edited by NumberSix : 28 Mar 2023 at 02:06 PM.

6 Mar 2023, 11:39 PM	#2
Bamb0 Master of the @ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 1,876	FB is the most aweful/intrusive site online!!

7 Mar 2023, 04:15 AM	#3
TenFour Master of the @ Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: USA Posts: 1,749	Can't read the article with the paywall, but I have never liked FB. Just today I had to sign into it to do something and it reminded me how terrible it is just from a technical standpoint. Everything is disjointed and hard to navigate, and there are so many different items, options, settings, etc. it is impossible to set it up in a way that you like. It is entirely designed to force you to see whatever they have decided they want you to see, but I think they have also lost their own way with moonshots like the Metaverse and now AI. Frankly, I think the concept of a social network like FB is great, but the execution is terrible. What if instead you could just connect to those you wanted to connect with, all in a clean and uncluttered site with limited distractions? What if you just saw posts from those you want to communicate with and in the order in which they were posted?What if the entire experience wasn't designed to trap you in rabbit holes, maximizing your engagement?

7 Mar 2023, 09:15 PM	#6
somdcomputerguy Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Rupert, WV Posts: 882	I don't like fb much either. I first started to use it because some old friends and family used it, and only it, to 'socialize'. I soon found myself reading thru others posts because I was really interested in what they had for breakfast.. I have found this script to make fb easier for me to digest. I use the js version, although it has 'specific browser add-ons' as well. F.B. Purity - Clean up and Customize Facebook - https://www.fbpurity.com/ There is another, Social Fixer, and there is probably more. I tried it once, but for some reason that I don't remember I found FBP better suited for me.

11 Apr 2023, 03:46 PM	#12
chrisretusn Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Philippines Posts: 846	I used to use Facebook a lot. I posted, shared stuff many times a day. My sister got a bit tired of seeing so many post from me so she challenged me to a friendly bet, that I would last more than a week without posting. That was on Feb 10, 2023. I won that bet, I have not posted since. I decided primarily that was preaching to the choir or to friends who just plain won't change. My goal was get friends to at least think, that there are different takes on the issues. Since I quit only one of my friends noticed I wasn't posting and asked if I was okay. I guess the rest are happy to see me gone. When I say friends I mean folks I actually know, met in real life not on Facebook. I have never been put in Facebook jail. I have been banned from going live for 30 days a few times (Not interested in doing that), told I couldn't advertise a few times (a strange one to me). I am currently in a Restricted Status, meaning my "post will be moved to lower in News Feed for at least 90 days". Like that has any real effect since I only share to Friends. In all cases these so called fact checks that put me on Restriction were provably wrong or a fact a check of something not even related to what I posted. I view it as censorship. My current 90 day counter which was reset back to 90 on Feb 1, expires around May 2.