Beta beta beta

sh33p · 16 Jun 2006, 12:40 PM

I am trying out all the new beta services in my never ending quest to find a service I actually like. To this point I have used gmail because I like the fact that they don't have in your face ads. Now though, hotmail and yahoo are releasing their betas and I have tried both. Between the two, I like hotmail better. I am actually thinking that I might switch to hotmail over gmail, which is revolutionary for me. Normally I hate most microsoft web services. What new features do you see email service providers like gmail releasing to keep their lead on the email market? There is only so much you can do with email. What do you see them coming up with next?

xbot · 16 Jun 2006, 12:53 PM

Before I start, there's a window at the bottom right I must right click:

"New Message from Free Viagr4 50% off"

Apparently hotmail thinks my friends have numbers in their names...

What was I saying? Oh yeah, HOTMAIL SUCKS

Javier · 16 Jun 2006, 04:41 PM

Another interesting matter is how Hotmail "lets know" spammer that an account is active.

I have a very old Hotmail account that I have never used (and never communicated to anyone). Therefore, nobody should know about it. Anyway, it receives its daily doses of spam.

But, if I log and use this account (not sending nor receiving, just testing it), my daily portion of world wide spam increases. Yes!!!

Actually, I am using it to try the new beta interface, and the spam received has almost doubled.

sh33p · 17 Jun 2006, 04:01 AM

I have never used hotmail before, and I have not yet started using it since my account hasn't upgraded to beta yet. Do you really get that much spam? As longs as I don't post my email on any websites, I never get spam. If hotmail has weak spam filters I wont use it.

jdtaylor · 17 Jun 2006, 04:35 AM

I highly recommend Yahoo's beta it is far better than the live.com interface in terms of ease of use plus features.

webecedarian · 18 Jun 2006, 01:12 AM

I'm one of the few peple who actually likes Hotmail - the current version. At least, I've never found anything I like better, although I've tried a few others - Fastmail, Gmail, Yahoo. Which, of course, doesn't mean that I don't complain about Hotmail a lot, anyway.

But I'm particularly interested when peple complain about Hotmail spam, as Javier is. I use this account only to communicate to about a half-dozen people, occasionally for a business question to a company (but no purchases). My spam which at one point was up to a few a week, is now down to almost ZERO. No spam at all in months.

Someone here at EMD suggested that my spam may be low because my address includes a numeral. Javier, I'm wondering this: Maybe Hotmail has gradually upgraded their filters, but because you said your account was old, maybe once those early spammers found you, they just latched on, but they wouldn't have found you if you were beginning the account today. Is that possible?

jdtaylor · 18 Jun 2006, 04:16 AM

I agree it is most likely heavier spam filters and such like which are having a major effect, and this is all and good,a s someone needs to stop thiis spam problem, and ensure all the spammers get approaitae action for all they do as they can't really get away with this, when quite simply it can slow accounts and servers down which should not be nesecarry.

gunnarj · 20 Jun 2006, 12:24 AM

Spammers concentrate their attention on the biggest services - which would include Hotmail. Similarly, virus makers concentrate their attacks on the biggest OS's and browsers, which is why until relatively recently, Apple and Firefox were thought to be immune from virii and bugs. We've since found out that simply isn't true - the case is that the attention is focused where the users are.

I have four Hotmail accounts, and only one receives an inordinate amount of spam, and these are automatically filtered to the spam/junk aka Bulk Mail folder.

I've mentioned before that I have the grandfathered webdav (HTTP) accounts which work beautifully, including reliable SMTP - have no problems personally with them. It's too bad that so many seem to have nothing but problems with their Hotmail accounts, but....

...why people who are indundated by spam continue to keep their Hotmail accounts is beyond me. Perhaps so they can use it as a reference for their periodic "Hotmail sucks" remarks.

gj

mysterious · 20 Jun 2006, 12:52 AM

I don't understand why people are having problems with Hotmail. I have never had any problems. No spam at all, and I use it everyday too.

Tommorrow they are releasing live mail. They didn't make the same mistake as gmail as regards to the country domains.

robert@fm · 11 Jul 2006, 03:09 AM

Hotmail sucks donkeys

theog · 11 Jul 2006, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sh33p
What new features do you see email service providers like gmail releasing to keep their lead on the email market? There is only so much you can do with email. What do you see them coming up with next?

Getting back to your original question....

- Calendar that syns with a desktop (outlook or something on the desktop). The calendar on the desktop should also be able to syn with palms/ppc, mobile phones, etc. Also the sharing of parts of the calendar on the net would be nice (most already do this).

- IMAP with a paid version. Given what I have learned on here (from you smart people) I don't see imap being free. I used to think it should be, but now, I guess, my stand is it should be part of a paid subscription. Would be nice if it were free, but I understand that it takes up a lot of resources. People want to check email with many devices....

- New stuff in email, like:

--http://www.zoho.com/
--http://www.37signals.com/

I thought: http://goowy.com/ was/is going in the right direction... MS should have purchased this company.

miley · 12 Jul 2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Javier
Another interesting matter is how Hotmail "lets know" spammer that an account is active.

I have a very old Hotmail account that I have never used (and never communicated to anyone). Therefore, nobody should know about it. Anyway, it receives its daily doses of spam.

That's abit of a stretch:
- perhaps the account was used before you and the bad guys found out though him/her
- perhaps the same username is in use at another domain (say aol or yahoo), and the spammer found out about it, then decided to triple the size of his list by changing the domain (ie, he knows joe@hotmail, so then trys joe@aol and joe@yahoo)
- perhaps the bad guys just guessed it in a dictionary attack

I really, really doubt Hotmail sells their userdata to spammers.

King Of Email · 12 Jul 2006, 06:59 PM

Actually I liked Hotmail when it was only 2MB and the mailbox had a webpage interface view and a more user friendly appearance. At least then I didn't get tons of junk mail from places and people I never heard of even though I never gave out my Hotmail address to anyone. Now Hotmail, like Inbox.com, for me is a 2GB white elephant that I can never turn off the exclusive junk mail filter without being covered in an avalanche of spam.

That's why I have had to stick with smaller email services that may not have the name recognition and prestige of the big dogs, but actually provide a level of service without the price of massive spam in the inbox that is unfortunately associated with mega-corporate conglomerates who buy, sell, and trade email addresses and personal info in addition to the billions of dollars they get in ad revenue.

BTW, Hotmail does use member info and addresses in order to send them spam email. I know because the incoming "to" name (not the actual email address itself) corresponds to an old MSN messenger handle I once used over FIVE years ago exclusive and known only to Microsoft services, but have long since abandoned. I don't expect to get a "free" account for absolutely nothing, but conversely I don't expect to get a useless spam-ridden hellhole either.

However, Hotmail is hardly alone in this practice by any means. They just happen to be the most prominent, and could easily stop the vast majority of this junk at the server level before it even gets into a user's inbox. But they want the additional ad revenue generated by this flood and value it more than an individual member's discomfort. And, despite my numerous complaints and letters over the years to Microsoft feedback about this very issue, they have yet to alter their ways one iota even in the face of significant competition. Because of this, I will still use them, but only occasionally and only as a backup, not a main account.

cococo · 12 Jul 2006, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robert@fm
Hotmail sucks donkeys

Are you the fat donkey with beard?
Hotmail have improved, no regular complaints here.
i think i've seen you spam FM in other boards.

xmailer · 13 Jul 2006, 01:57 AM

Welcome to the forums, cococo. But did you read the rules before posting? Particularly the first one, which Edwin, the forum administrator, has listed first, and designated as "MOST IMPORTANT"?

16 Jun 2006, 12:40 PM	#1
sh33p Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9	Beta beta beta I am trying out all the new beta services in my never ending quest to find a service I actually like. To this point I have used gmail because I like the fact that they don't have in your face ads. Now though, hotmail and yahoo are releasing their betas and I have tried both. Between the two, I like hotmail better. I am actually thinking that I might switch to hotmail over gmail, which is revolutionary for me. Normally I hate most microsoft web services. What new features do you see email service providers like gmail releasing to keep their lead on the email market? There is only so much you can do with email. What do you see them coming up with next?

20 Jun 2006, 12:24 AM	#8
gunnarj Essential Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Northeast, US Posts: 433	Spammers concentrate their attention on the biggest services - which would include Hotmail. Similarly, virus makers concentrate their attacks on the biggest OS's and browsers, which is why until relatively recently, Apple and Firefox were thought to be immune from virii and bugs. We've since found out that simply isn't true - the case is that the attention is focused where the users are. I have four Hotmail accounts, and only one receives an inordinate amount of spam, and these are automatically filtered to the spam/junk aka Bulk Mail folder. I've mentioned before that I have the grandfathered webdav (HTTP) accounts which work beautifully, including reliable SMTP - have no problems personally with them. It's too bad that so many seem to have nothing but problems with their Hotmail accounts, but.... ...why people who are indundated by spam continue to keep their Hotmail accounts is beyond me. Perhaps so they can use it as a reference for their periodic "Hotmail sucks" remarks. gj Last edited by gunnarj : 20 Jun 2006 at 12:30 AM.

12 Jul 2006, 06:59 PM	#13
King Of Email Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 622	Hotmail Actually I liked Hotmail when it was only 2MB and the mailbox had a webpage interface view and a more user friendly appearance. At least then I didn't get tons of junk mail from places and people I never heard of even though I never gave out my Hotmail address to anyone. Now Hotmail, like Inbox.com, for me is a 2GB white elephant that I can never turn off the exclusive junk mail filter without being covered in an avalanche of spam. That's why I have had to stick with smaller email services that may not have the name recognition and prestige of the big dogs, but actually provide a level of service without the price of massive spam in the inbox that is unfortunately associated with mega-corporate conglomerates who buy, sell, and trade email addresses and personal info in addition to the billions of dollars they get in ad revenue. BTW, Hotmail does use member info and addresses in order to send them spam email. I know because the incoming "to" name (not the actual email address itself) corresponds to an old MSN messenger handle I once used over FIVE years ago exclusive and known only to Microsoft services, but have long since abandoned. I don't expect to get a "free" account for absolutely nothing, but conversely I don't expect to get a useless spam-ridden hellhole either. However, Hotmail is hardly alone in this practice by any means. They just happen to be the most prominent, and could easily stop the vast majority of this junk at the server level before it even gets into a user's inbox. But they want the additional ad revenue generated by this flood and value it more than an individual member's discomfort. And, despite my numerous complaints and letters over the years to Microsoft feedback about this very issue, they have yet to alter their ways one iota even in the face of significant competition. Because of this, I will still use them, but only occasionally and only as a backup, not a main account.

16 Jun 2006, 12:53 PM	#2
xbot Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 922 Representative of: xxos.us	Before I start, there's a window at the bottom right I must right click: "New Message from Free Viagr4 50% off" Apparently hotmail thinks my friends have numbers in their names... What was I saying? Oh yeah, HOTMAIL SUCKS

16 Jun 2006, 04:41 PM	#3
Javier Master of the @ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 1,344	Another interesting matter is how Hotmail "lets know" spammer that an account is active. I have a very old Hotmail account that I have never used (and never communicated to anyone). Therefore, nobody should know about it. Anyway, it receives its daily doses of spam. But, if I log and use this account (not sending nor receiving, just testing it), my daily portion of world wide spam increases. Yes!!! Actually, I am using it to try the new beta interface, and the spam received has almost doubled.

17 Jun 2006, 04:01 AM	#4
sh33p Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9	I have never used hotmail before, and I have not yet started using it since my account hasn't upgraded to beta yet. Do you really get that much spam? As longs as I don't post my email on any websites, I never get spam. If hotmail has weak spam filters I wont use it.

17 Jun 2006, 04:35 AM	#5
jdtaylor Master of the @ Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,693	I highly recommend Yahoo's beta it is far better than the live.com interface in terms of ease of use plus features.

18 Jun 2006, 01:12 AM	#6
webecedarian Essential Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 483	I'm one of the few peple who actually likes Hotmail - the current version. At least, I've never found anything I like better, although I've tried a few others - Fastmail, Gmail, Yahoo. Which, of course, doesn't mean that I don't complain about Hotmail a lot, anyway. But I'm particularly interested when peple complain about Hotmail spam, as Javier is. I use this account only to communicate to about a half-dozen people, occasionally for a business question to a company (but no purchases). My spam which at one point was up to a few a week, is now down to almost ZERO. No spam at all in months. Someone here at EMD suggested that my spam may be low because my address includes a numeral. Javier, I'm wondering this: Maybe Hotmail has gradually upgraded their filters, but because you said your account was old, maybe once those early spammers found you, they just latched on, but they wouldn't have found you if you were beginning the account today. Is that possible?

18 Jun 2006, 04:16 AM	#7
jdtaylor Master of the @ Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 1,693	I agree it is most likely heavier spam filters and such like which are having a major effect, and this is all and good,a s someone needs to stop thiis spam problem, and ensure all the spammers get approaitae action for all they do as they can't really get away with this, when quite simply it can slow accounts and servers down which should not be nesecarry.

20 Jun 2006, 12:52 AM	#9
mysterious Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 50	I don't understand why people are having problems with Hotmail. I have never had any problems. No spam at all, and I use it everyday too. Tommorrow they are releasing live mail. They didn't make the same mistake as gmail as regards to the country domains.

11 Jul 2006, 03:09 AM	#10
robert@fm The "e" in e-mail Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 4,681	Hotmail sucks donkeys

13 Jul 2006, 01:57 AM	#15
xmailer Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: USA Posts: 5,485	Welcome to the forums, cococo. But did you read the rules before posting? Particularly the first one, which Edwin, the forum administrator, has listed first, and designated as "MOST IMPORTANT"?