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Old 9 Jun 2021, 07:44 PM   #31
TenFour
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The reveal that the FBI tricked a bunch of gangsters into using a fake encrypted app called ANOM makes you wonder what other fake services are out there to entice criminals to share their secrets while thinking they are hiding them. https://www.reuters.com/breakingview...ue-2021-06-09/
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Old 9 Jun 2021, 10:08 PM   #32
dantheman
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Heard about that FBI stunt.

Will they ever release the GrauciFauci emails to the public?

Protonmail has done some major changes:
https://protonmail.com

Was glad to see Vivaldi recommend Fastmail with their recent version 4:

"The eagerly-awaited beta release of Vivaldi Mail, Vivaldi Feed Reader and Vivaldi Calendar are now here on your desktop. While you can choose to use Vivaldi Mail Beta with your existing mail and calendar services, you can also set up an account on vivaldi.net or add a trusted third-party service, such as Fastmail.

Truly, with the new Vivaldi, we’re making it easier for you to break away from the locked ecosystems of the huge corporations and creepy, surveillance-driven practices.

Vivaldi 4.0 is available on Windows, Mac and Linux computers, mobiles and tablets running Android 5 or higher, and on up-to-date Chromebooks. Get it now."

https://vivaldi.com/blog/vivaldi-4-0/

Vivaldi Mail may not be anywhere near ProtonMail, but must be 99.9% better than GMail or Outlook!
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Old 10 Jul 2021, 08:02 AM   #33
alexu2007
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Protonmail is silently discarding emails. Someone sent me an email with some important documents and it never arrived at protonmail. I moved my domain from protonmail to google workspace and the email arrived in a few hours, the server retried until my domain resoved on google MXes.

It happened before, first time I thought that it was just a server glitch. But now I cannot use the protonmail service anymore, silently discarding emails is not a good thing. That particular email was not spam and google does not marked it as spam, so I don't know why protonmail did not accept it.
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Old 11 Jul 2021, 03:00 AM   #34
JeremyNicoll
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexu2007 View Post
Protonmail is silently discarding emails. Someone sent me an email with some important documents and it never arrived at protonmail.
If it "never arrived" then they didn't discard it.

They might have rejected it at an SMTP level (ie when the sending server offered it to their server), but you'll only know that if you can get the sender to ask their mail provider for the outgoing logs showing it being rejected.

You should ask the sender to do that because they should be concerned if their service is not configured properly (eg not doing sufficent retries). Some mail services don't do any retries, or in some circumstances won't do them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexu2007 View Post
I moved my domain from protonmail to google workspace and the email arrived in a few hours, the server retried until my domain resoved on google MXes.
Good!


Quote:
Originally Posted by alexu2007 View Post
It happened before ... so I don't know why protonmail did not accept it.
The sender has to ask the sending system for its logs. If the sender isn't using a decent provider with tech support willing to dig out the logs then you'll never know.

This is the sort of thing that makes me willing to pay for email services; I /expect/ a provider to be willing to find out why things have not worked.

Last edited by JeremyNicoll : 7 Sep 2021 at 08:41 PM. Reason: fixed a typo
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 09:48 PM   #35
dantheman
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Thumbs down So much for top notch security Protonmail!

--ProtonMail Shares Activist's IP Address With Authorities Despite Its "No Log" Policy
--https://thehackernews.com/2021/09/protonmail-shares-activists-ip-address.html
--Mon Sep 06 2021 07:47:59 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time)
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Old 7 Sep 2021, 12:58 PM   #36
jarland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
--ProtonMail Shares Activist's IP Address With Authorities Despite Its "No Log" Policy
--https://thehackernews.com/2021/09/protonmail-shares-activists-ip-address.html
--Mon Sep 06 2021 07:47:59 GMT-0500 (Central Daylight Time)
This continues to reinforce my opinion that if you want anonymity and unprecedented privacy, you have to make it yourself and trust no one to do it for you. I'd do the same if legally required and I make no secret about it. There's a difference in standing behind your customers and being willing to take the fall for them. We all saw what happened with Lavabit, Ladar and all of his customers paid the price for protecting Snowden. You'd have to have nothing to lose to risk everything you have for one customer. But even that ignores how many other customers had to pay the price, so it's hard for even customers to trust that their data is safe with someone who would take the fall for them.

Luckily the only time law enforcement has reached out to me, I had nothing of value for them. I hope that by making it known that I won't risk everything and everyone, no one who would ask me to would be on my servers.
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Old 7 Sep 2021, 03:15 PM   #37
pjroutledge
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Originally Posted by jarland View Post
This continues to reinforce my opinion that if you want anonymity and unprecedented privacy, you have to make it yourself and trust no one to do it for you.
But how could you '... make it yourself and trust no one ...' and be on the Internet (ie have an IP address - which I understand is all that ProtonMail claims it provided authorities) at the same time. (I don't think using TOR should be considered making it yourself.)

Even if you host your own mail server, by virtue of using email and being on the Internet you would need an IP address and presumably any determined authorities could trace you? Or am I missing something?

Unless you're referring to a completely private and closed network, with no connection to the Internet?
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Old 7 Sep 2021, 03:46 PM   #38
jarland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjroutledge View Post
But how could you '... make it yourself and trust no one ...' and be on the Internet (ie have an IP address - which I understand is all that ProtonMail claims it provided authorities) at the same time. (I don't think using TOR should be considered making it yourself.)

Even if you host your own mail server, by virtue of using email and being on the Internet you would need an IP address and presumably any determined authorities could trace you? Or am I missing something?

Unless you're referring to a completely private and closed network, with no connection to the Internet?
I don't know, because at some point you have to trust someone to get connected. Even if you roll your own VPN, your hosting provider can see who connects through their network.

Maybe you break out a custom encryption algorithm and an old favorite RFC: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1149

TOR has a pretty good method though. It's a good place to start but not the only consideration. Laziness or missing knowledge tends to be what gets people there.
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Old 7 Sep 2021, 07:58 PM   #39
TenFour
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Quote:
if you want anonymity and unprecedented privacy, you have to make it yourself and trust no one to do it for you.
I don't think you can have "anonymity and unprecedented privacy" on the Internet. Sure, you can make yourself less visible and more secure, but forget hiding from the government or even local law enforcement. They even found Osama bin Laden who communicated by hand written notes passed by subordinates. There are just too many connections made every day to the Internet to make disconnecting either feasible or desirable for most of us. In exchange we must put up with the knowledge that a bit of our privacy is at risk. Luckily, for most of us we are not direct targets of anyone and have nothing to hide from law enforcement. Sure, there are rogue cops, phishing expeditions, various scams and hacks, etc., but as I stated most of us are not being targeted directly. You simply can't participate in the modern world without using the Internet and therefore we must take some risk or else live on a mountaintop in a log cabin.

Let's just say you figure out how to create your own totally anonymous email server and then only connect to the Internet via some totally anonymous connection. But, how do you prevent your name, address, and phone number from being published in public databases? Never get a driver's license? Don't drive a car? Don't rent an apartment or buy a house? Don't vote? Here in the USA all of these things are totally public records that are easily accessible and have to be accurate or they don't work. Many cities how have license plate scanning cameras all over the place and even on police cars that can track every movement of your car, and now lots of places have facial recognition too. The list of ways you can be tracked go on and on.
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Old 7 Sep 2021, 08:23 PM   #40
somdcomputerguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjroutledge View Post
'... make it yourself and trust no one ...'
Note this has nothing to do with IP address or web browser anonymity, only communication content. GnuPG.

- Bruce
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Old 8 Sep 2021, 12:53 PM   #41
truemagic
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No love for Protonmail, their billing strategy sxxx
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Old 11 Sep 2021, 08:07 PM   #42
TenFour
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ProtonMail under fire, from the BBC:https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58476983
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Old 12 Sep 2021, 10:13 AM   #43
webecedarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
If i use a Protonmail account to send emails to people who only use Gmail or Outlook (whose services keep tabs on the data they receive), why bother using this secure email service? Only to send to someone who already has a Proton account?
On a more theoretical level, isn't it always better to support a better company or product, rather than a worse one? So many people aren't even aware of anything other than the obvious choices like Gmail. Maybe the mere fact of your using Proton will enlighten them.
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Old 15 Sep 2021, 11:00 AM   #44
Csin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioneja View Post
ProtonMail support is not exactly the best, I will agree there. For me, it's been very slow sometimes, but at least competent. For the most part, the service works well and so most people will never deal with support.

I actually like Tutanota a little more, even though they had a very rough time with DDOS attacks. They have come out of it doing much better now, and their price is still good. They're still going through growing pains, IMO, so they are not quite running perfectly smoothly yet, but I have come to like them again after their DDOS mess.

There are other good alternatives to ProtonMail too that are worth looking at besides Tutanota, including Mailfence, Startmail, Mailbox.org, Posteo, Countermail, CTemplar, and yes, I'll even mention Hushmail, although Hushmail still gets a bad rap due to some of their issues/controversies in the past, and they obviously have the worst jurisdiction of that group. But Hushmail might be a good option for someone who needs/wants HIPAA compliant email and doesn't mind the jurisdiction. It depends on your needs.

Runbox is also a possibility if you use the Mailvelope plugin, as well as FastMail, although Runbox has a better jurisdiction by far. And technically any provider will work with PGP if you know how to set it up. But I'd suggest that list above as a starting point.

But again, ProtonMail is a decent option. Frankly, those kinds of privacy services that are at least trying to fight for our privacy are worth support. If you can, sign up for more than one of them! Give one as a gift! Tutanota even has an easy gift option for your friends and family!
Protonmail is not the option it used to be>

https://arstechnica.com/information-...o-authorities/

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/pr...s-authorities/

No longer can the convenient excuse be used: "Yes, but if you are going to be a axe murderer, granny groper, pedofile, etc., you can't expect email providers to actually keep their end of the TOS."
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Old Yesterday, 02:09 AM   #45
janusz
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ProtonMail’s warrant canary list gives details of data orders they have received from various authorities, whether they complied, and why or why not.
https://protonmail.com/blog/transparency-report/
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