New Interface

[joe_devore]

Originally Posted by Merovingian

not to veer the thread in an already tangential tangent, but I feel compelled to add this link

ʘ‿ʘ

NICE (^_^) THX for Sharing.

[erimess]

Originally Posted by Pfolson

Is what related to the Opera takeover, exactly? The new interface? You've seen yourself that work on the new interface goes back to 2008 or earlier. The Opera acquisition of Fastmail was in 2010. It hardly seems likely that they're related.

You'll have to excuse me that I didn't memorize all the dates. I have a very busy life and it hardly seems likely I'm gonna take the time out to memorize this stuff..

While I do agree that e-mail communications from Fastmail should be a little more frequent (I can't remember the last time I received an e-mail from FM, and I also have my level set to "chatty"), it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who ignores blog posts, forums, messages on the log-in page, etc., -- who is even aware of the presence of forum threads but "doesn't have the time to read them" -- and then complains that he wasn't kept informed.

Well, you'll have to excuse me again that I really don't have the time to read all this stuff, though you seem to think I must have extra time in order to have an opinion on anything. Years ago I hung around here quite a bit, and never expected that everyone else had to - bit of a snooty attitude there. And you'll have to excuse me that I have year-end financial things to deal with and didn't even have time to come back to read this. Really, excuse me.

Funny, I thought the POINT of the newsletter was to inform of us goings-on. I wasn't aware that I had to go to a blog and these forums all the time, and wade through piles of all sorts of garbage, to make sure I didn't miss something that, as far as I'm concerned, should have been in the newsletters. That's why I was getting them.

What, pray tell, is your issue that I actually have an expectation of the newsletter? And, pray tell, how should I have known that things were missing in the newsletters... if I didn't know things were missing in the newsletters? (Don't strain yourself thinking about that one.)

If you want to participate and have a say in development, new features, changes, updates, etc., you have to meet halfway and make an effort to find out what's going on, and then make an effort to participate in the discussion. If you don't do that, it's a little unfair to show up several years after the changeover and complain that you had no input.

Several years, huh? Again, you'll have to excuse me. I showed up when stuff showed up in the newsletter.

Sorry to harp on that newsletter, but I do pay for this email, and the newsletter is one of the things we get. It's one of those little extras we get with Fastmail. Er... I guess not??? Or maybe I just remember the old days.

Or, as the previous poster said, just keep using and enjoying the old interface.

You mean the one they're going to stop supporting, and eventually start taking features away from?

What's being asked for in this thread is more like buying a car and then deciding you want to change the wheels, modify the suspension, put in a new engine, repaint it, and turn it into a tricked out custom ride. You can do all of that, but hey, you're going to have to do it yourself. You don't expect the company that made the car to create your custom hot rod for you. And you're probably not going to complain about the manufacturer because you need to understand engines (or hire a mechanic) when it's time to make your modifications.

It's more like I already bought the car, which already had the modified suspension, cool wheels, new engine and cool paint job... and then suddenly having it taken away. Do you get the difference between something that has existed the entire time I've had this email (which is a very long time), and having it taken away, versus something that simply never existed before and I'm coming to ask that it be added? The problem with your analogy is that I didn't choose to buy a new car - I already had one that had all that cool stuff and they take it away. Do you really, seriously, not get the difference?

[erimess]

We couldn't change the layout of things in the old UI using JS or use tweaks files like we can in the new so that, I think, is one of FM's greatest new features I don't think you'll find anywhere else...

What about those of us who have no clue what you're even talking about? That's wonderfully terrific for those of you who actually know how to use that stuff.

[Terry]

The UI is user interface JS is Java Script

[Pfolson]

I'm sorry you feel so abused, misused and misunderstood, but absolutely nothing in your diatribe changes my original point. You were provided with countless ways to keep informed, over a period of several years, and chose not to take advantage of them, for a variety of reasons. And no, I don't have the "snooty attitude" that everyone has to hang around in the forums; I suspect most FM users don't, actually. But what about subscribing to blog updates? What about looking at the messages on your log-in screen? When the stuff is right in front of your eyes and you don't even glance at it, how is that FM's fault, or the fault of any other users here? Is it really true that the new interface was never, ever mentioned in a newsletter until just recently? I'm not doubting you, I'm asking. It may well be. I don't keep copies of the old newsletters, so I can't be sure. If so, that's a shame. But it doesn't change the fact that the new interface was heavily publicized in other ways. Are you "required" to take advantage of them? Are you "forced" to use them? Of course not. But the choice is yours.

As far as having something you used "taken away" from you, I think you need to come to grips with the fact that all technology changes. It's true of computers. It's true of software. It's true of online services (how many upgrades and overhauls has the Gmail interface gone through since it was rolled out six or seven years ago?). Modifications are made, improvements implemented. You have the choice of either going along for the ride, finding ways to make your old stuff keep working, or moving to another product. What you don't have a right to do is hold back improvements that benefit the majority of users because you like to use technology that dates back to the 1990s.

I know a few people who swear that Windows 98 is still the greatest operating system ever. They're furious that Microsoft no longer supports it, and they're furious that most new software won't even run on it. Well, if it's that important to them, they're free to keep using Win98 and dealing with all of the problems that entails -- much less security, broken drivers, no more updates, less capacity, less compatibility, etc. But the rest of the technological world has moved on to something better.

Paul

[Pfolson]

Originally Posted by Pfolson

Is it really true that the new interface was never, ever mentioned in a newsletter until just recently? I'm not doubting you, I'm asking.

Well, I answered my own question. I don't have all the old newsletters, but I did find newsletter articles about the new interface in issues from December 2008 and July 2009. The first was asking for beta testers, the second was about "how to get the most from the new interface."

So, the suggestion that nothing was mentioned in the newsletters until just recently was, to say the least, inaccurate and unfair.

Again: there are numerous ways to keep informed. Whether you take advantage of them or pay attention to them is up to you.

Paul

[erimess]

Originally Posted by Pfolson

IAnd no, I don't have the "snooty attitude" that everyone has to hang around in the forums; I suspect most FM users don't, actually.

You absolutely do have an attitude that those who don't aren't allowed to have opinions. While you haven't blatantly said I can't have opinion, you absolutely do have an attitude about my "right" to have them.

But what about subscribing to blog updates? What about looking at the messages on your log-in screen? When the stuff is right in front of your eyes and you don't even glance at it, how is that FM's fault, or the fault of any other users here?

Sigh - just repeating myself. Obviously you aren't reading. Because many years ago I started getting the newsletter for this very purpose. No one ever informed me along the way that I'd be "left out of" certain important information if I also didn't go to the blogs, the forums, etc. The fact that something else exists in addition to the newsletter does not change the fact that the newsletter was supposed to keep us informed. And no, I don't expect the newsletter to carry every little detail about everything, but when it was meant to keep us up-to-date on important stuff, then yes I can blame them when it doesn't serve that purpose. Especially when the chatty setting was meant to even include the not-quite-as-important info!

Real people don't have time to read all this stuff. I already have a billion other things to keep up with. I can't fit it all into 24-hour days. But I'm supposed to add blogs and forums to that already-too-big list, and if I don't find a way to squeeze in time I don't have, screw any opinions I might have. This absolutely is the attitude you're presenting here. If you simply disagreed with the opinions that'd one thing, but you're disagreeing with my right to have an opinion if I don't have a 48-hour day.

Is it really true that the new interface was never, ever mentioned in a newsletter until just recently?

I did mention in my first post that it mentioned it back in July - did you read it? That was after it was already implimented, as I already stated, so you informing me that it was in the July newsletter is about as useless as them not telling me until the July newsletter. As for prior to that, they're always talking about updating the UI, There have been plenty of tweaks and such along the way. I do not recall ever reading anything that led me to believe there were going to be any kind of drastic changes or that this "tweaking" was somehow more important relevant than the other tweaking. Not to mention that they've always had people beta-testing stuff - there's nothing new about that. Therefore, I don't see any "news" in that. Perhaps they should have made it a bit clearer, cause I didn't catch it, and yes I do read all those.

As for the rest of your nonsense comments, the question was asked why people were still using the old interface. I merely answered that question, and part of the answer is losing all those skins. And how you're having a hissy over my honest answer. Well, if someone doesn't want an answer, or an honest one, they shouldn't ask!

[Pfolson]

From your first post:

First, I was unaware of anything about a new interface until I got one of the newsletters in August. It linked to a page that was dated February. On that page, there was a comment about waiting 6-12 months to take away the old interface, after seeing how many folks are still using the old one and why.

First, I do not recall ever seeing anything about a new interface coming up and would like to know where this feedback was happening. I do not have time to spend at the forums or at blogs. That's why I get email updates - I even have it set on chatty. But I never saw a thing until August, after it was already a done deal. So if I wasn't hanging out at the blogs, I don't get to have feedback before it's a done deal, even though I'm PAYING for this?

Supposedly there was some notice for two whole weeks on the login screen. You think everyone really reads stuff on the login screen? I log in. I check my email at least once, if not several times, a day. It's just the same screen. Why should I look at it? I just log in like I always do, mostly absent-mindedly. And I'm a person who actually reads things like TOS's so it's not because I ignore everything.

From your second post:

Well, you'll have to excuse me again that I really don't have the time to read all this stuff, though you seem to think I must have extra time in order to have an opinion on anything. Years ago I hung around here quite a bit, and never expected that everyone else had to - bit of a snooty attitude there. And you'll have to excuse me that I have year-end financial things to deal with and didn't even have time to come back to read this. Really, excuse me.

Funny, I thought the POINT of the newsletter was to inform of us goings-on. I wasn't aware that I had to go to a blog and these forums all the time, and wade through piles of all sorts of garbage, to make sure I didn't miss something that, as far as I'm concerned, should have been in the newsletters. That's why I was getting them.

What, pray tell, is your issue that I actually have an expectation of the newsletter? And, pray tell, how should I have known that things were missing in the newsletters... if I didn't know things were missing in the newsletters? (Don't strain yourself thinking about that one.)

Several years, huh? Again, you'll have to excuse me. I showed up when stuff showed up in the newsletter.

Sorry to harp on that newsletter, but I do pay for this email, and the newsletter is one of the things we get. It's one of those little extras we get with Fastmail. Er... I guess not??? Or maybe I just remember the old days.

From your most recent post:

I do not recall ever reading anything that led me to believe there were going to be any kind of drastic changes or that this "tweaking" was somehow more important relevant than the other tweaking. Not to mention that they've always had people beta-testing stuff - there's nothing new about that. Therefore, I don't see any "news" in that. Perhaps they should have made it a bit clearer, cause I didn't catch it, and yes I do read all those.

From the FM Newsletter, December 2008, two full years ago now:

For the past year, we've been working on a large overhaul of our web interface. With the help of some great designers as well as feedback from our users, we're now ready to release the interface for more general beta testing.
Beta site - http://www.fastmail.fm/beta/
Overall features
Professional look with cleaner layout, reduced clutter and small icons to simplify some actions
More consistent layout between screens (eg navigation bar always available, common sidebar)
Javascript used to improve user experience (although it still works fine without)
More semantic HTML makes future stylesheet (look and feel) customisation easier
Significantly improved mobile display on modern mobile devices (eg iPhone, Opera Mini, Opera Mobile)
Mailbox screen
Much better keyboard support - navigate using keys j/k/x/o/Enter, action menu via . (fullstop), search email via / (slash), search folders via , (comma)
Better auto-sizing to screen size to display more of the message subject
Cross folder searching available
Advanced search syntax available (eg. from:john subject:dinner since:"1 week ago")
Message read
Much better keyboard support (like mailbox screen)
Attached messages shown inline
Attached images as thumbnails
Better integration with file storage to save attachments
Compose
Address book auto-complete and address tokenisation
Improved HTML editor
Auto-saving of drafts
Background upload of attached files
Improved spell check
Separate reply/forward quoting options
Default font face/size for HTML email
For more details, please see our new interface wiki page. To report bugs/issues, please see our new interface bugs page. We encourage all users to give the new interface a go and report any issues on the bug wiki page.
We plan to eventually roll out the new interface to http://www.fastmail.fm so all standard logins use the new interface. Depending on feedback, that should occur in the next month or two. We plan to run the old interface for 3-6 months after the changeover, but will eventually decommission the old interface.