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Old 5 Sep 2021, 08:15 AM   #16
alexu2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumbGuy View Post
Understandable. I may go that route too.
What are some email providers you'd consider migrating to ?
Protonmail
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 11:42 AM   #17
ChinaLamb
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Originally Posted by alexu2007 View Post
Protonmail
I understand proton is A solution for many, but it has no import or export features. It is too restrictive in many of its functions, not able to auto forward, etc. I have an account, for one client, but I do everything I can to avoid it.
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 02:52 PM   #18
EricG
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I doubt most of you read the article. The law applies to crimes in Australia and a warrant is required. Everyone who uses email for serious criminal activity on the internet put up their hand!
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 05:23 PM   #19
alexu2007
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I did read the article. And I am not involved in any criminal activity. But I am not an expert in law and I am unable to understand what exactly are the implications of such law for me. And also I am not confortable with the fact that a law might open a door for corruption and abuse.

I am using the email for personal sensitive communications, such as with doctors, medical records, lab tests results, contracts with different companies, and such. I am not confortable with an email service that conduct their business under a law that might allow more access to my emails. I am a little paranoid when it comes to that, because I live in Romania where corruption is high.

Protonmail lacks a lot of features that Fastmail offer, but it has end to end encryption, and this is enough for me.

Last edited by alexu2007 : 5 Sep 2021 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 05:41 PM   #20
alexu2007
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Originally Posted by ChinaLamb View Post
I understand proton is A solution for many, but it has no import or export features. It is too restrictive in many of its functions, not able to auto forward, etc. I have an account, for one client, but I do everything I can to avoid it.
Protonmail does offer a tool for import and export of emails: https://protonmail.com/support/knowl...nmail-account/

Also you can import / export using protonmail bridge https://protonmail.com/bridge/ and any email client. Just set up the email account that you currently use in your email client alongside with protonmail and you can copy / move emails between those two accounts.

Or you can use protonmail bridge and this tool to backup or copy emails into your protonmail account: https://www.mailstore.com/en/products/mailstore-home/
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 09:33 PM   #21
TenFour
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The law applies to crimes in Australia and a warrant is required.
I've read the article several times and I don't see the answer to my earlier question: how could this apply to a person who is not Australian and doesn't live in Australia? I suspect that is most of us on this forum, including those who say they are leaving Fastmail. If I use a Swiss email service should I be worried about what Swiss laws my emails might be breaking? Or a Norwegian service? In any case, I strongly suspect you can't avoid state-level surveillance of your email no matter what you do. Sure, encrypted email puts another hoop in the way of governments snooping on you, but it has been shown many times that backdoors are out there and being used.
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Old 5 Sep 2021, 09:50 PM   #22
alexu2007
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I strongly suspect you can't avoid state-level surveillance of your email no matter what you do. Sure, encrypted email puts another hoop in the way of governments snooping on you, but it has been shown many times that backdoors are out there and being used.
If it's more complicated for government authorities to access a mailbox then it will be much harder for corrupt one to access it. This is my main concern.
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 12:14 AM   #23
ChinaLamb
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As per "does this apply?" The question is, what happens when another country believes you have broken one of their laws? For instance, I have worked extensively in developing countries. I've seen MANY people accused of terrible crimes -- just to have an excuse for the government to get control of their businesses. And I need not discuss what's happening between a certain Asian country and Canada - where numerous people are being held, in retaliation to someone being held in Canada. There's plenty of news articles out there, these days, about "Exit Bans" and shadow courts - where American businesspeople and NGOs are being targeted. The crimes? Revealing state secrets. Anything, at any time, could be declared a state secret - and it has. I now know many people (business, even english teachers) who've found themselves charged with these crimes. Oh the stories I could tell. I'm not going to get into what happens in some of these smaller countries. Due process is NOT assured in the least. Don't even get me started on the Middle East.

If NO court order is required, then, well... it's the wild west of law enforcement. All it takes is a foreign country to pressure Australia, and threaten them with backlash -- and all they need to do is hand over data. With no court order required -- well, anything could happen. Unfortunately, we HAVE seen this happen plenty of times.

In short --- the Australian law takes away all accountability. This is a BIG security issue. Anyone who says "Don't do anything illegal" hasn't played in the real world of international politics / journalism / business / travel. All they know is what they've read on some internet forum, or what they see on TikTok or Reddit.


Re: Proton mail -- I'm well aware of Bridge -- and NO, that's not a solution, if you look into how it works. I'd have to download ALL my fastmail to an offline software, then use Bridge to upload that email to Proton... Nope... Not gonna do it. Every step increases the likelihood of lost data -- esp. when going through third party software.

Also with Proton, their Scripting is severely limited. Sieve scripting is missing most of the commands, that are available in Fastmail. Most of my scripts will NOT work in Proton.

Proton gives nice security at terrible expense of all the great features.

Last edited by ChinaLamb : 6 Sep 2021 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 02:04 AM   #24
placebo
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Originally Posted by EricG View Post
I doubt most of you read the article. The law applies to crimes in Australia and a warrant is required. Everyone who uses email for serious criminal activity on the internet put up their hand!
The article does note that some warrants don't have to come from a judge. So who can issue these warrants? The requirement is hardly a safeguard against governmental abuse if whoever issues them is essentially a rubber stamp for the government, much like how FISA warrants have turned out to be in the US.

While I feel that abandoning FastMail on the basis of this article alone is an overreaction, I can understand the concern others have for the potential for abuse.
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 02:52 AM   #25
BritTim
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After mature consideration, my own assessment is
  • this is a thoroughly bad law; but
  • it is of almost no significance if you are not an Australian national/resident.
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 03:40 AM   #26
ChinaLamb
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Originally Posted by BritTim View Post
  • this is a thoroughly bad law; but
  • it is of almost no significance if you are not an Australian national/resident.
I would say:
  • abandoning Fastmail at this point is absolutely an over-reaction
  • we need more information to understand how this applies to non-Australian residents
  • there are security concerns with ANY email provider
  • Google responds to requests for information almost carte-blanche
  • Fastmail is still a much better solution than almost anything out there
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 08:49 AM   #27
TenFour
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abandoning Fastmail at this point is absolutely an over-reaction
It would be nice to hear from Fastmail with their opinion on how this might impact their customers.
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 10:14 AM   #28
ldarby
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Originally Posted by ChinaLamb View Post
Re: Proton mail -- I'm well aware of Bridge -- and NO, that's not a solution, if you look into how it works. I'd have to download ALL my fastmail to an offline software, then use Bridge to upload that email to Proton... Nope... Not gonna do it. Every step increases the likelihood of lost data -- esp. when going through third party software.
Not sure how you're expecting migration to work, but any IMAP client should be able to connect to both providers (to proton via the bridge) and can just copy mails from one to the other. There is also the imapsync command line tool which can do this, which is great if it gets interupted, it will resume copying half way though a large migration.

(I just started using proton bridge, it does have some probiems but they can be avoided by avoiding the INBOX folder, see my post here: http://www.emaildiscussions.com/show...8&postcount=57)
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 11:14 AM   #29
ChinaLamb
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Originally Posted by ldarby View Post
Not sure how you're expecting migration to work, but any IMAP client should be able to connect to both providers (to proton via the bridge) and can just copy mails from one to the other. There is also the imapsync command line tool which can do this, which is great if it gets interupted, it will resume copying half way though a large migration.

(I just started using proton bridge, it does have some probiems but they can be avoided by avoiding the INBOX folder, see my post here: http://www.emaildiscussions.com/show...8&postcount=57)
Thank you, but based on my experience so far with Proton, and the issues I've had forwarding, and with sieve, I will definitely NOT be transitioning over. Bridge is a factor but not a deal maker/breaker. I use my one Proton account for one client who requires it (and pays for that account) but for anything else, no thank you.
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Old 6 Sep 2021, 11:16 AM   #30
ChinaLamb
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Originally Posted by TenFour View Post
It would be nice to hear from Fastmail with their opinion on how this might impact their customers.
I wholeheartedly agree -- however, I doubt Fastmail even knows, at this point. Stuff like this is often determined by how the 'powers that be' use, or abuse their powers.

Best thing is if Fastmail has continuing communication about this..

Have they communicated in the past about previous Australian laws, and how it impacts customers?
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