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Old 24 Nov 2021, 04:04 PM   #16
Berenburger
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csin View Post
It was not mentioned "prominently" as it took some digging to find, but it was mentioned that the free accounts were subject to the six month timeclock...they just 'forgot' to mention paid accounts were the same. Probably wanted it to seem like paid accounts were special to encourage the money flow. Anyway, []
Quote:
5.6. Tutao is entitled to terminate the contract without notice in case of a free of charge tariff if the account was not used for at least six months.
Nothing in their TOS about paid accounts.
I think something else went wrong.
Have you been able to reach them for an explanation.
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Old 25 Nov 2021, 05:19 AM   #17
hadaso
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Location: Holon, Israel.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csin View Post
... I filed a report on Tutanota at

https://www.ripoffreport.com/report/...ccount-1513567

....
It says:
Error 1009

Ray ID: 6b35ab14d9c9ad61 2021-11-24 21:18:10 UTC
Access denied
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Old 25 Nov 2021, 06:26 AM   #18
somdcomputerguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaso View Post
It says:
Error 1009

Ray ID: 6b35ab14d9c9ad61 2021-11-24 21:18:10 UTC
Access denied
Might be related to this:
Quote:
NOTICE! Those consumers located in the European Union, effective 5/24/2018 due to the GDPR, citizens of any GDPR applicable country or anyone sitting in, or operating from, such country are prohibited from using this site.
That site loaded OK for me, in U.S.

- Bruce
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Old 7 Dec 2021, 10:25 AM   #19
Csin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berenburger View Post
Nothing in their TOS about paid accounts.
I think something else went wrong.
Have you been able to reach them for an explanation.
Nope. No longer trying. As said, I'm not going to chase them around. I will be replacing Tutanota in January with Lavabit....way more expensive, but the Lavabit guy has earned trust by standing up to BigBro....Tutanota squandered their trust for a few dollars ripoff (or shoddy programming and playing hard to get).
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Old 7 Dec 2021, 10:28 AM   #20
Csin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hadaso View Post
It says:
Error 1009

Ray ID: 6b35ab14d9c9ad61 • 2021-11-24 21:18:10 UTC
Access denied
Link worked for me after I posted it, and it still works now. You might have to use a VPN with country spoofing capability....like when you want to watch BBC junk from America, or Netflix junk from the EU.
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Old 7 Dec 2021, 04:41 PM   #21
hadaso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csin View Post
Link worked for me after I posted it, and it still works now. You might have to use a VPN with country spoofing capability....like when you want to watch BBC junk from America, or Netflix junk from the EU.
The point is that if you file a report by pointing to a link that is obviously blocked then you cannot expect it to be taken seriously.
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Old 31 Dec 2021, 01:46 AM   #22
ioneja
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Just saw this post and was alarmed that Tutanota would suspend a PAID account like that after 6 months of inactivity or no logins. As a former customer and potential future customer again, and since I've had an up and down relationship with them in the past (due to other reasons that are foggy to me right now), this would obviously be a huge issue, and I'd never want to sign up with them again. So thank you for the report!

However, I then realized that I actually still had a paid account with them from a while ago, and I hadn't logged in for over 6 months. Perfect way to confirm the issue reported by the OP. And THEN I recalled it had some old important emails in it and I had totally forgotten about it!

So then I logged in, NO PROBLEMS. My account opened up and there were my important emails I had forgotten about (thank goodness!), plus a handful of new emails that I didn't expect.

So again, thanks for the report since it made me go and actually check on the account, and also realize I had some important emails in there... BUT also I was able to confirm that my paid account DID allow me to log in with over 6 months of inactivity.

So perhaps a little more research is worth the time on the part of the OP to find out what might have happened. May I suggest the OP give one last shot at contacting Tutanota support and ask them? In my case my account was fine, but perhaps this was a fluke for the OP or something else happened with his account?
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Old 31 Dec 2021, 02:56 AM   #23
ioneja
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Quick follow up to my prior post -- I reached out to a friend who also had a paid account that he hadn't used for over 6 months, and like with my situation, he was also able to log in with no problems. (BTW he had moved over to Protonmail and hadn't touched his Tutanota account since the move.)

So that makes two paid accounts with more than 6 months inactivity and both accounts were still fine. So I hope the OP is still reading this thread and will consider reaching out to Tutanota to find out more about what happened to his account.
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Old 16 Feb 2022, 04:15 AM   #24
Tsunami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csin View Post
Even though I paid in full early this year, Tutanota disabled my account recently for not logging in within six months. Who does that with a paid account? Tutanota! I highly advise against a paid account...stick with a free one.
Would you really still recommend using Tutanota, even as a free service, when this has happened to you? I mean, I would you trust them for important emails when you cannot even trust them as a paid user?

On the other hand, ioneja had no issues logging in after >6 months of inactivity, so there may be another issue why you could not access your account. But then, I guess a service without reachable helpdesk is also not what you want...



When it comes to the high-security mail providers, I really like Protonmail, would love to have another account with them but I understand that you cannot just sign up for more than 1 free account (??) as that would be taking advantage of a great service.

I may try Mailfence.
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Old 16 Feb 2022, 06:15 AM   #25
ioneja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
On the other hand, ioneja had no issues logging in after >6 months of inactivity, so there may be another issue why you could not access your account. But then, I guess a service without reachable helpdesk is also not what you want...
Yes, no issues with my old neglected paid account... in fact, I decided to start using it again, and it's been pretty good so far. Even the iOS app is decent. Only glitch is that the iOS app periodically logs me out for some reason and I have to log back in, very annoying when it happens. Otherwise seems solid. I hadn't used the calendar feature before, and I like it. I had been thinking of moving all my calendar stuff to an encrypted service (right now I use Fastmail for most calendar needs), and I might switch to the Tutanota calendar for a while until Protonmail finally releases their iOS Calendar app. I need something on iOS and web, so I can't use the Proton Calendar beta yet.

Overall I feel Tutanota is not quite as polished as Protonmail, but on the other hand Tutanota already released their calendar, and the Proton Calendar is still in beta. But both services are definitely better than a year ago IMO. Good things to come, crossing fingers!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
When it comes to the high-security mail providers, I really like Protonmail, would love to have another account with them but I understand that you cannot just sign up for more than 1 free account (??) as that would be taking advantage of a great service.
Protonmail has been solid for me and can definitely recommend it, worth the money for the paid account!

BTW, at one point I had two free accounts with them, and then converted one to a paid account. So I have one paid and one free account now. Also, if you get their VPN service, but keep it totally separate from your existing ProtonMail email accounts (there are various reasons to do it this way), they will actually give you a *separate* free ProtonMail account as well, that's connected to your VPN account. So I think it's common for people to have more than one free account since you can get to that point via various different routes over time. I don't know their "official" policy, but they never gave me hassle when I had two free accounts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsunami View Post
I may try Mailfence.
Also a good service. No iOS app that I know of, but it's in my top 10 favorite email services for sure. Several good options out there nowadays for people seeking more privacy.

On a related note, this thread makes me realize all the progress that some of these more private services have been making in terms of features, UI, apps, stability, etc., I think I'm getting close to letting go of Fastmail in the near future. I've been with Fastmail for many years, and they are definitely one of my favorite providers (and usually the first provider I recommend to people who want to get away from Google, but who don't want to get into something like ProtonMail yet).

But some of these more private providers are really closing the gap in features.

I am really impressed to see the progress in Tutanota's and Protonmail's apps, for example, so much better than just a year or two ago. With the additional services that they've both been adding, like calendars (not available in the Protonmail iOS app yet, but works well in the Tutanota app), and other features in the works (ProtonDrive is in beta for example), I just don't know if Fastmail is as compelling as it was.

Not to mention jurisdiction issues and various privacy laws that keep getting worse in Australia and the US, so Fastmail is losing it's appeal to me. Nothing against them as a company -- they've given me very good service overall for many years, and I like the Fastmail team -- I think they are good people -- but in order to solve their jurisdiction and related issues, they'd have to relocate outside Australia and move their servers outside of the US, and not use any services in India. That's not going to happen unfortunately. And I've also noticed some changes in wording in their user agreement which concerns me about jurisdictions and their legal compliance. That's a different discussion/thread of course.

Anyway, I think Protonmail, Tutanota, Mailfence, (and other similar providers), etc... are mature enough and loaded with very good features now to really jump in.

And re: the OP post on Tutanota, I still wish the OP would try to get in touch with them again to follow up on the login issue. Their support is indeed slow, but I've had a few exchanges with them and they seem like good guys who are trying very hard to make a good service. I'm writing off my prior issues with them a while back as growing pains and I can see some definite improvements. And like I said a few posts back, both my own paid account, and the paid account of a friend were both inactive for >6 months and we both had no issues getting back in.

Cheers!
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Old 1 Jun 2022, 11:05 PM   #26
truemagic
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I have just finished reading all the comments here about Tutanota, ProtonMail and Mailfence.

I have a paid account with Tutanota (still active) and while they are working great for the most parts, however they are lacking in terms of some basic functionality as my primary email, in particular when displaying HTML emails (I subscribed to lots of newsletters) are awful on mobile app (Android), and the inability to pinch to zoom makes it harder for me to read my newsletters/emails. Not to mention they don't have conversation for emails.

Hence I'm with mailbox.org now and making use of FairEmail client which is near perfect. However I'm worried about their poor implementation of MFA/2FA whereby it only makes you enter 10 alphanumeric pin+token for logins, once you activated One Time Password (OTP). I'm not sure if I want to continue using mailbox.org but seriously I like the @secure.mailbox.org alias they offer which forces everything you send and receive in encrypted TLS/SSL.

Maybe I should try Mailfence next?
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Old 1 Jun 2022, 11:42 PM   #27
ioneja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truemagic View Post

Hence I'm with mailbox.org now and making use of FairEmail client which is near perfect. However I'm worried about their poor implementation of MFA/2FA whereby it only makes you enter 10 alphanumeric pin+token for logins, once you activated One Time Password (OTP). I'm not sure if I want to continue using mailbox.org but seriously I like the @secure.mailbox.org alias they offer which forces everything you send and receive in encrypted TLS/SSL.
I'm not a fan of the MFA/2FA implementation at mailbox.org either, but technically, let's be honest, 10 characters, even just numerals, amounts to 10 billion+ possibilities, and the password changes each time interval due to the token changing each time interval, and still a hacker would realisitically need both factors to get in... so the Mailbox.org devs probably ran the probabilities and the chances of getting in are infinitesimal, especially since they most likely have login fraud detection with some number of failed logins as a threshold... so how many failed login attempts would lock your account? Or how many tries would a hacker need to get in? Certainly not enough to beat the odds of getting one in 10 billion+ at 10 characters.

But I agree with you, it is an odd MFA/2FA implementation that doesn't inspire immediate confidence at 10 characters with TOTP, which is what I assume you are using. HOWEVER, you can use Yubikey, and that greatly extends the length of the MFA/2FA password, so there's a solution for you. Again, I assume you are using TOTP to get 10 chars (4+6). Yubikey is much much much much better in this case. I believe it is 40+ characters....

Quote:
Originally Posted by truemagic View Post
Maybe I should try Mailfence next?
As for comparing the three -- Tutanota, Mailbox.org, Mailfence, I like all three, and I would currently "trust"* all three (*trust inasmuch as "trust" should be given to any email provider). Each service has strengths/weaknesses, but they are all good IMO, and on my personal short list of trusted providers right now. You just have to balance what things you want/need/prefer. YMMV. Good luck!
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Old 2 Jun 2022, 12:22 AM   #28
truemagic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ioneja View Post
I'm not a fan of the MFA/2FA implementation at mailbox.org either, but technically, let's be honest, 10 characters, even just numerals, amounts to 10 billion+ possibilities, and the password changes each time interval due to the token changing each time interval, and still a hacker would realisitically need both factors to get in... so the Mailbox.org devs probably ran the probabilities and the chances of getting in are infinitesimal, especially since they most likely have login fraud detection with some number of failed logins as a threshold... so how many failed login attempts would lock your account? Or how many tries would a hacker need to get in? Certainly not enough to beat the odds of getting one in 10 billion+ at 10 characters.

But I agree with you, it is an odd MFA/2FA implementation that doesn't inspire immediate confidence at 10 characters with TOTP, which is what I assume you are using. HOWEVER, you can use Yubikey, and that greatly extends the length of the MFA/2FA password, so there's a solution for you. Again, I assume you are using TOTP to get 10 chars (4+6). Yubikey is much much much much better in this case. I believe it is 40+ characters....



As for comparing the three -- Tutanota, Mailbox.org, Mailfence, I like all three, and I would currently "trust"* all three (*trust inasmuch as "trust" should be given to any email provider). Each service has strengths/weaknesses, but they are all good IMO, and on my personal short list of trusted providers right now. You just have to balance what things you want/need/prefer. YMMV. Good luck!
Hi, appreciate your reply, I have to agree with you that even 10 digits password should be hard to hack (within 30 sec), just not a normal thing and it's the first time I see this. It might be a dated implementation back then, who knows

Yeah I have a base model Yubico security key which doesn't support TOTP (it only has basic function which serves as a security key) so I don't think it's supported on mailbox.org, I might take a second look later though. Thanks for reminding me this.

Also did you enable mailbox Guard for your emails, use PGP or without encryption at all? Just curious.
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Old 2 Jun 2022, 01:54 AM   #29
ioneja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truemagic View Post
Hi, appreciate your reply, I have to agree with you that even 10 digits password should be hard to hack (within 30 sec), just not a normal thing and it's the first time I see this. It might be a dated implementation back then, who knows
I don't know if it's dated or not, but it is also the first time I saw that approach. It is odd, but once I rationally thought through it, I was okay with it. Yubikey is the way to go though, but I don't recall what version of Yubikey it supports. There are several generations as you know, as well as versions with FIDO2, which I believe mailbox.org does NOT support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truemagic View Post
Also did you enable mailbox Guard for your emails, use PGP or without encryption at all? Just curious.
I have tested mailbox.org with encryption and interoperability with some other email services, and I found it worked fine. There were a few hoops I had to jump through, though, and it wasn't as seamless as, say, Proton. I can't remember if I have enabled ALL the mailbox guard options though. There are several settings. It's very flexible, you can take it at your own pace, and TBH I've been a little loose with it. It depends on who I'm emailing.

Additionally, for the highest level of privacy for email (which is a different discussion about the degrees of privacy one can *realistically* achieve with email), you should definitely look at the threat model, business model, payment methods, logging policies, open source vs closed source, and design of the encryption to see if it suits your requirements, not to mention the level of understanding of your email recipients! For me, mailbox.org meets the minimum requirements for good privacy, but some other services are open source and have a more robust design if you want a little more privacy. In the end though, you still have to decide if you want to "trust" your email provider, and for me, mailbox.org has earned my basic trust. I also like their privacy activism approach (see their blog for their comments about legislation, etc.) So I am a fan in general. But if I wanted to tighten up a little bit more on privacy, I'd use Tutanota via a VPN, etc.... hope that makes sense.
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Old 10 Jun 2022, 10:59 AM   #30
webecedarian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Csin View Post
Even though I paid in full early this year, Tutanota disabled my account recently for not logging in within six months. Who does that with a paid account? Tutanota! I highly advise against a paid account...stick with a free one.

Seems to me you'd have a reasonable to protest that you paid for a year, and a year is what you ought to get.
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