WEBDAV clients for use with FastMail file storage

hadaso · 31 Aug 2005, 09:41 AM

Now that WEBDAV access to the file storage is available on FastMail, at least for playing (alpha testing) it's a good time to discuss the available options to use WEBDAV, i.e., the available client software we can use on our computers to access this feature (WEBDAV client software).

On LINUX:
Konqueror people just type in webdav://dav.messagingengine.com/ or webdavs://dav.messagingengine.com/ for secure connection (haven't tried it myself(.

On WINDOWS:
Internet explorer can access Fastmail's webdav server. Just use https://dav.messagingengine.com/ and enter your username and fastmail. All you get are links to files and folders (and once I logged into one account it doesn't even ask me if I want perhaps to access another one).

Windows XP has another way to access webdav: under "My network places" choose "add a network place" from "network tasks" and put the same URL (https://dav.messagingengine.com/) in the proper place where asked. This gives a better interface that allows file and folder dragging and dropping, double-clicking to open a file etc. I tried to use it to "save file" from an appliation but it failed (after asking me for username and password, despite the fact that it was open in another window and the username and password were supplied just a few seconds before. And then nothing happened, and I wasn't able to save the file) Some people claimed that there are problems with the WinXP built-in webdav client.

Brong said:

Quote:

... in testing I found webdrive (http://www.southrivertech.com/products/webdrive/) to be quite a good WebDAV client for Windows. It's nicer to use than the Windows build-in DAV support ...

It is a limited 20 days trial and then the cheapest license is about $50.

Prognathous said:

Quote:

Novell NetDrive is also very nice. It comes with Novell Netware 6.0. but seems to be available for download from many colleges and universities (such as the one in the link). I'm not sure how legal it is for others to use, so if you're worried about that, check the EULA.

Anyway, it just help me map drive W:\ to fastmail, and so far, all is well

Other than that I found a list of WEBDAV projects here: http://www.webdav.org/projects/

Anyone has experience with any of the open source solutions? Anyone care to test any with the FastMail alpha server and share their experience? Anyone uses Mac?

robmueller · 31 Aug 2005, 10:38 AM

Windows DAV support is so frustrating. I wrote a fairly detailed report a while back here:

http://wiki.fastmail.fm/index.php/Fi...investigations

I noted there that there were 2 completely separate DAV implementations, well it appears there's actually 3 if you include the one that comes with recent versions of Office. *sigh*

Anyway, there appears to be 2 relatively solid ways to get DAV working in XP.

The My Network Places method
1. Open the "My Network Places" icon on the desktop
2. Click the "Add a network place" link on the top left of the "My Network Places" window
3. Click "Next" and choose the "Choose another network location" option. Click "Next"
4. Enter "http://dav.messagingengine.com" or "https://dav.messagingengine.com" as the "Internet or network address". Click "Next"
5. Accept the security certificate
6. Enter your username/password. Click OK
7. Give it a name (eg My Files @ FastMail). Click "Next", click "Finish"

And that should do it. You'll be able to move around directories like regular windows explorer, and copy, paste, drag and drop files.

You won't be able to double-click most files to open them though. Generally office documents will work, but most others won't.

The other option that we want to get working is the "net use" approach, which involves running a command like:

net use * http://dav.messagingengine.com

To map the network drive. This uses a different DAV dll internally which has better remote/local support, but unfortunately has it's own problems (eg no https, doesn't work without a trailing # which breaks us at the moment, etc).

So basically for the moment if you use windows, either:
1. Use the "My Network Places" approach above
2. Use a third party client like:
a) webdrive (see above)
b) novell netdrive (see above)
c) DAV Explorer (Java - http://www.ics.uci.edu/~webdav/)

Some interesting comments available here:

http://svkbook.elixus.org/nightly/en...v.clients.html

Rob

Si1 · 31 Aug 2005, 03:30 PM

Mac users can connect by opening a Finder window, choosing 'Connect to Server' from the Go menu, and entering http://dav.messagingengine.com and their email address and password, when prompted. Unfortunately, OS X doesn't support WebDav through https, so the connection is not secure with this method.

For a secure connection (using https), you can download Goliath (http://www.webdav.org/Goliath). It can't integrate your online folder as a volume in Finder, but you can drag and drop files in/out of the Goliath window and it's pretty easy to use.

beq · 31 Aug 2005, 05:35 PM

FYI from what I recall, the Novell NetDrive app floating around on the net is an older version of WebDrive...

I've been using WebDrive and built-in My Network Places in Windows to access FTP/DAV sites. Have only used "net use" mostly to automate mapping LAN shared drives though...

hadaso · 31 Aug 2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beq
FYI from what I recall, the Novell NetDrive app floating around on the net is an older version of WebDrive...

Another difference is that WebDrive costs money but NetDrive is "sorta free". (sounds to me like Novell's apology that "we somehow done something that prevents us from distributing this directly but doesn't prevent others from redistributing...". I didn't actually check the legal stuff though.)

robmueller · 31 Aug 2005, 06:02 PM

FYI, I've just been playing around a bit, and here's what I can tell.

1. Use the "My Network Places" procedure above seems to work reasonably well for me, though with the big limitation that you can't just double click on files to open them as normal

2. I've installed NetDrive, and it seems to work really well. Despite having a slightly complex interface to setup, it does most of the intelligent stuff you want. Double clicking on files just works, and it seems to do quite a lot of local caching, so performance feels really good after the first time you access a file. It's also quite nice in throwing up a progress meter of longer operations so you know something useful is happening

For those that want to use it, basic process is:
1. Download and install (http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/main.asp?page=2117)
2. On the main window, click "New Site"
3. Give it a name (eg My Files) and use the site URL as http://dav.messagingengine.com or https://dav.messagingengine.com then click Finish
4. Make sure the new site is selected in the list on the left
5. Unselect the "Anonymous/Public Login" checkbox
6. Enter your username/password in the textboxes
7. Click "Connect"

And that should do it. Everything then just seems to "work" quite nicely.

Can anyone find out the full licencing situation behind net drive 4.1? This currently seems like the best free solution available for DAV access under windows.

Rob

placebo · 31 Aug 2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Si1
For a secure connection (using https), you can download Goliath (http://www.webdav.org/Goliath). It can't integrate your online folder as a volume in Finder, but you can drag and drop files in/out of the Goliath window and it's pretty easy to use.

Transmit by Panic supports secure DAV as well. It's a nice FTP client too.

cailloux · 1 Sep 2005, 10:48 AM

The Novell iFolder 3.0 client (current version, see www.ifolder.com) does not work. It requires (as near as I can tell) an iFolder server and won't just connect to a WebDAV client like NetDrive will.

I tried to get it working and, when it didn't with some really minor playing, I punted and went to what I do know works.

tim

cailloux · 1 Sep 2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by robmueller
Can anyone find out the full licencing situation behind net drive 4.1?

I did a decent search of the Novell site and there is a very strange answer that, as near as I can tell, means that "if you can find NetDrive, feel free to use it, but we can't give it to you." Read the Novell answer here.

For the Novell step-by-step on configuring NetDrive (not that Rob's explanation wasn't good), look here.

tim

P.S. If you can figure out what the heck the Novell answer to the "can we use it" question, let me know because that's as obtuse an answer as I have ever seen from a company.

Also, excellent work to bron. Have a schooner on me! (I just renewed my account for 3 years.)

Edit: Hadaso already posted the link to the Novell answer (see above). I really don't see Novell serving anyone with a cease-and-desist over their use of the application.

savirr · 1 Sep 2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robmueller
FYI, I've just been playing around a bit, and here's what I can tell.

2. I've installed NetDrive, and it seems to work really well.

...

3. Give it a name (eg My Files) and use the site URL as http://dav.messagingengine.com or https://dav.messagingengine.com then click Finish

...

Just in case anyone else got caught by this, I accidentally used https://dav.messagingengine.com/ (with a trailing slash) which didn't seem to work. Removing the slash fixed it.

Simon

medicjrh · 1 Sep 2005, 07:46 PM

Hey all!

I've been reading the threads about WevDAV here and on the fastmail alpha forum.... I'm wondering if anyone's got any ideas about a problem I've got with Windows XP and the "Add Network Place" method? When I try to do this to add https://dav.messagingengine.com/ (or even plain old http://), it tells me the folder does not appear to be valid. I take it some people had success with this, so any pointers would be welcomed!

Thanks!
Jon

wash · 5 Sep 2005, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Si1
Mac users can connect by opening a Finder window, choosing 'Connect to Server' from the Go menu, and entering http://dav.messagingengine.com and their email address and password, when prompted. Unfortunately, OS X doesn't support WebDav through https, so the connection is not secure with this method.

For a secure connection (using https), you can download Goliath (http://www.webdav.org/Goliath). It can't integrate your online folder as a volume in Finder, but you can drag and drop files in/out of the Goliath window and it's pretty easy to use.

While the alpha server was operational I was able to log on using the https://dav.messagingengine.com (secure) using the method described above. With the drive mounted it was not only very snappy in operation but easily allowed me to move files on and off the drive and was 10 fold faster than idisk (Apples own subscription version). I'm using OSX Tiger.

spruce · 15 Sep 2005, 04:04 AM

I'm having the same problem as medicjrh using Windows XP Home Version 2002 Service Pack 2 (maybe low WiFi connectivity? Nope, moved closer to router and same problem with an Excellent connection.)

wash · 15 Sep 2005, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spruce
I'm having the same problem as medicjrh using Windows XP Home Version 2002 Service Pack 2 (maybe low WiFi connectivity? Nope, moved closer to router and same problem with an Excellent connection.)

I've connected using Windows XP Pro. The networking options are a bit more extensive with XP Pro than with Home edition. Under Pro I was able to set the connection up through the networking options but not able to map the item as a drive. It did allow copying and moving files easily. I used everything via wireless so the wi fi wasn't a problem.

If you have Pro at your reach give it a try.

robmueller · 15 Sep 2005, 01:21 PM

I highly recommend checking out Netdrive. I've been using it on my machine with Windows and it just works really well. It seems to do sensible amounts of caching, and displays a progress for long operations so you know something is happening. All up, just feels right.

It would be great if the inbuilt windows DAV client worked well, but it just seems to be horribly broken in many different subtle ways.

Rob

31 Aug 2005, 10:38 AM	#2
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	Windows DAV support is so frustrating. I wrote a fairly detailed report a while back here: http://wiki.fastmail.fm/index.php/Fi...investigations I noted there that there were 2 completely separate DAV implementations, well it appears there's actually 3 if you include the one that comes with recent versions of Office. sigh Anyway, there appears to be 2 relatively solid ways to get DAV working in XP. The My Network Places method 1. Open the "My Network Places" icon on the desktop 2. Click the "Add a network place" link on the top left of the "My Network Places" window 3. Click "Next" and choose the "Choose another network location" option. Click "Next" 4. Enter "http://dav.messagingengine.com" or "https://dav.messagingengine.com" as the "Internet or network address". Click "Next" 5. Accept the security certificate 6. Enter your username/password. Click OK 7. Give it a name (eg My Files @ FastMail). Click "Next", click "Finish" And that should do it. You'll be able to move around directories like regular windows explorer, and copy, paste, drag and drop files. You won't be able to double-click most files to open them though. Generally office documents will work, but most others won't. The other option that we want to get working is the "net use" approach, which involves running a command like: net use * http://dav.messagingengine.com To map the network drive. This uses a different DAV dll internally which has better remote/local support, but unfortunately has it's own problems (eg no https, doesn't work without a trailing # which breaks us at the moment, etc). So basically for the moment if you use windows, either: 1. Use the "My Network Places" approach above 2. Use a third party client like: a) webdrive (see above) b) novell netdrive (see above) c) DAV Explorer (Java - http://www.ics.uci.edu/~webdav/) Some interesting comments available here: http://svkbook.elixus.org/nightly/en...v.clients.html Rob

31 Aug 2005, 03:30 PM	#3
Si1 Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 590	Mac users can connect by opening a Finder window, choosing 'Connect to Server' from the Go menu, and entering http://dav.messagingengine.com and their email address and password, when prompted. Unfortunately, OS X doesn't support WebDav through https, so the connection is not secure with this method. For a secure connection (using https), you can download Goliath (http://www.webdav.org/Goliath). It can't integrate your online folder as a volume in Finder, but you can drag and drop files in/out of the Goliath window and it's pretty easy to use.

31 Aug 2005, 05:35 PM	#4
beq Cornerstone of the Community Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA Posts: 895	FYI from what I recall, the Novell NetDrive app floating around on the net is an older version of WebDrive... I've been using WebDrive and built-in My Network Places in Windows to access FTP/DAV sites. Have only used "net use" mostly to automate mapping LAN shared drives though...

31 Aug 2005, 06:02 PM	#6
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	FYI, I've just been playing around a bit, and here's what I can tell. 1. Use the "My Network Places" procedure above seems to work reasonably well for me, though with the big limitation that you can't just double click on files to open them as normal 2. I've installed NetDrive, and it seems to work really well. Despite having a slightly complex interface to setup, it does most of the intelligent stuff you want. Double clicking on files just works, and it seems to do quite a lot of local caching, so performance feels really good after the first time you access a file. It's also quite nice in throwing up a progress meter of longer operations so you know something useful is happening For those that want to use it, basic process is: 1. Download and install (http://www.bcuc.ac.uk/main.asp?page=2117) 2. On the main window, click "New Site" 3. Give it a name (eg My Files) and use the site URL as http://dav.messagingengine.com or https://dav.messagingengine.com then click Finish 4. Make sure the new site is selected in the list on the left 5. Unselect the "Anonymous/Public Login" checkbox 6. Enter your username/password in the textboxes 7. Click "Connect" And that should do it. Everything then just seems to "work" quite nicely. Can anyone find out the full licencing situation behind net drive 4.1? This currently seems like the best free solution available for DAV access under windows. Rob

1 Sep 2005, 10:48 AM	#8
cailloux Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 114	The Novell iFolder 3.0 client (current version, see www.ifolder.com) does not work. It requires (as near as I can tell) an iFolder server and won't just connect to a WebDAV client like NetDrive will. I tried to get it working and, when it didn't with some really minor playing, I punted and went to what I do know works. tim

1 Sep 2005, 07:46 PM	#11
medicjrh Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1	Hey all! I've been reading the threads about WevDAV here and on the fastmail alpha forum.... I'm wondering if anyone's got any ideas about a problem I've got with Windows XP and the "Add Network Place" method? When I try to do this to add https://dav.messagingengine.com/ (or even plain old http://), it tells me the folder does not appear to be valid. I take it some people had success with this, so any pointers would be welcomed! Thanks! Jon

15 Sep 2005, 04:04 AM	#13
spruce Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 38	I'm having the same problem as medicjrh using Windows XP Home Version 2002 Service Pack 2 (maybe low WiFi connectivity? Nope, moved closer to router and same problem with an Excellent connection.)

15 Sep 2005, 01:21 PM	#15
robmueller Intergalactic Postmaster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 6,102 Representative of: Fastmail.FM	I highly recommend checking out Netdrive. I've been using it on my machine with Windows and it just works really well. It seems to do sensible amounts of caching, and displays a progress for long operations so you know something is happening. All up, just feels right. It would be great if the inbuilt windows DAV client worked well, but it just seems to be horribly broken in many different subtle ways. Rob